California NAACP wants to remove 'The Star-Spangled Banner' as national anthem

[Kutnupe14]

Racist.

Nah, Lewis had a great season and deserves it. Seb & Ferrari, well maybe next year.

If Schumacher was still racing, I'd be supporting him. Never got to see him race, sadly.

 

[JettaKnight]

There's just something stirring about seeing a man in a red jumpsuit with this playing in the background.

[video=youtube;z3RToBymttA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3RToBymttA[/video]

 

[1DOWN4UP]

I must be getting old.The only question in my day was "What do you like better?Ford's or Chevys?"

 

[JettaKnight]

I must be getting old.The only question in my day was "What do you like better?Ford's or Chevys?"

Now it's "Fiberglass or carbon fibre?"

 

[KLB]

Then that's incorrect. During the war of 1812 the British did use hired mercenaries, those were the "hirelings." Slaves were promised freedom if they entered British Service. So the stanza is correct, and not redundant, when it references "hirelings and slaves." Further, following the loss of War of 1812, many slaves fled to Canada, where they were granted freedom. So Key, the author of the poem/song was ironically speaking of freedom, while encouraging the death of those fighting for it themselves.

He was encouraging the death of those fighting against his homeland, whatever their origins. He wasn't referring to all slaves, only those fighting for Britain. It takes some effort to turn that into a racist sentiment.

 

[Alpo]

Maybe something with a little more audience participation?

[video=youtube_share;55AUYnFKJGQ]http://youtu.be/55AUYnFKJGQ[/video]

 

[Alpo]

There's just something stirring about seeing a man in a red jumpsuit with this playing in the background.

Yes. I see what you mean.....

or did you mean the Italian Cycling Team (and their dirty tricks) in Breaking Away?

[video=youtube_share;VTZ0N7VTDtY]http://youtu.be/VTZ0N7VTDtY[/video]

 

[JettaKnight]

It this one of those, "Is the suit red or blue things"?

And why does he look like this?

I meant this:

 

[Alpo]

Marlboro.

You realize that was designed as a lady's cigarette brand?

You haven't convinced me that Italian Opera in China by a guy wearing pajamas is macho just yet.

 

[rob63]

Then that's incorrect. During the war of 1812 the British did use hired mercenaries, those were the "hirelings." Slaves were promised freedom if they entered British Service. So the stanza is correct, and not redundant, when it references "hirelings and slaves." Further, following the loss of War of 1812, many slaves fled to Canada, where they were granted freedom. So Key, the author of the poem/song was ironically speaking of freedom, while encouraging the death of those fighting for it themselves.

My interpretation is that the line "No refuge could save the hireling and slave" was simply a reference to the fact that the enemies they were fighting against weren't fighting for their country. Key's poem is a patriotic ode to the men that fought for the flag that represents the nation and their cause. The line in question is contrasting the American's cause to those of the men they were fighting against, asking where are those men that swore they would leave us with no home or country? "Hireling and slave" builds on the resentment left over from the Revolution where the King sent foreign mercenaries to fight against them. The King sending mercenaries and slaves to do his fighting was viewed as a reflection of the value of his cause. The line in question has to be viewed within the context of the entire poem which is about fighting for your nation.

My two cents: If we have to replace the national anthem, how about "God Save the Queen" since we already know the NFL players will stand for it.

 

[Kutnupe14]

He was encouraging the death of those fighting against his homeland, whatever their origins. He wasn't referring to all slaves, only those fighting for Britain. It takes some effort to turn that into a racist sentiment.

Not really. If one cannot fathom the reasons why, a slave in the United States would want to be free, and openly encourage their killing as being a "good" thing, then that person is not only morally bankrupt, but a racist as well, given the details specific to the instance.

 

[Kutnupe14]

My interpretation is that the line "No refuge could save the hireling and slave" was simply a reference to the fact that the enemies they were fighting against weren't fighting for their country. Key's poem is a patriotic ode to the men that fought for the flag that represents the nation and their cause. The line in question is contrasting the American's cause to those of the men they were fighting against, asking where are those men that swore they would leave us with no home or country? "Hireling and slave" builds on the resentment left over from the Revolution where the King sent foreign mercenaries to fight against them. The King sending mercenaries and slaves to do his fighting was viewed as a reflection of the value of his cause. The line in question has to be viewed within the context of the entire poem which is about fighting for your nation.

My two cents: If we have to replace the national anthem, how about "God Save the Queen" since we already know the NFL players will stand for it.

Is it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Refugee_(War_of_1812)

The "Black Refugees" was the contemporary name of slaves fleeing the US during the war, as opposed to say the Black Loyalists, who fled during the Revolutionary War. Though we may never know, "No Refuge..." seems to be strangely coincidental, if not chosen purposefully by Key.

 

[rob63]

Is it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Refugee_(War_of_1812)

The "Black Refugees" was the contemporary name of slaves fleeing the US during the war, as opposed to say the Black Loyalists, who fled during the Revolutionary War. Though we may never know, "No Refuge..." seems to be strangely coincidental, if not chosen purposefully by Key.

I disagree, wholeheartedly and unreservedly. The line "No refuge" includes the "hirelings", you have to strip that out to claim that it is some oblique reference to "Black Refugees." I interpret each line within the context of the entire poem; I'm certainly not going to interpret lines based on what they could possibly mean if certain words are removed and others are added.

 

[femurphy77]

I think he was referring to California.


My opinion that the Star Spangled Banner is an unsuitable anthem for manifold reasons is well known and need not be repeated.

I like to "think" that I'm a "little" better informed than the average bear but until all of this started I wasn't even aware of any verses other than the first two. My lowly opinion is that the balance of the poem is being publicized to politicize and further fuel a fire that can't and won't ever go out. As much as people clamor for a way to get over racism in this country it's not going to happen. Too many people being validated by the indignation they manufacture based on the perceived slight of every little thing any more. Just as the word "racist" has lost its validity and to an extent the same for the people that consistently throw it out there.

Sorry but my world is based on people of different cultures getting along, that's the way I was raised and lived so my simplistic view is WTF is the problem? It's not that difficult!!

Just the other day I read about a college student that was being harassed by her roommate. The harasser was a white female ******* that should have been kicked out of the school and was. The victim threw that damn card out and proclaimed that if the roles had been reversed she would have been arrested. Sorry. Don't believe it and your credibility and my sympathy for your situation both died in the same instant! P

eople are inherently *******s but most of us have learned to deal with it, those that haven't SHOULD be publicly outed and ostracized! But I'm not buying this bull**** about the NA is racist! Part of it that probably 85% of Americans didn't even know existed may be so instead of making a stink about it maybe just let it go? Instead somebody has found yet another reason to claim victimhood for an issue (slavery) that left our land over 100 years ago as well as a way to ensure that we never come to terms with the fact that there are racist *******s on each side of the equation but the rest of us should be good enough to rise above them and quit giving them relevance. I should stay out of the political section.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Not really. If one cannot fathom the reasons why, a slave in the United States would want to be free, and openly encourage their killing as being a "good" thing, then that person is not only morally bankrupt, but a racist as well, given the details specific to the instance.

I whole heartedly have no problem with slaves attempting to escape to freedom and if I were around back then, I hope I would have been one of the enlightened ones that would have cheerfully assisted with their flight. My support ends when they pick up arms in fighting with the enemy, against my country. At that point they become traitors and if I were fighting in that war, I would have had no reservation shooting anyone fighting for the British.

 

[JettaKnight]

I like to "think" that I'm a "little" better informed than the average bear but until all of this started I wasn't even aware of any verses other than the first two. My lowly opinion is that the balance of the poem is being publicized to politicize and further fuel a fire that can't and won't ever go out. As much as people clamor for a way to get over racism in this country it's not going to happen. Too many people being validated by the indignation they manufacture based on the perceived slight of every little thing any more. Just as the word "racist" has lost its validity and to an extent the same for the people that consistently throw it out there.

Why did you latch onto my post?

I'm not even saying it's racist - I'm saying it's hard to sing, it's a lame tune, it ends in a question , etc., etc.


Think about the words, the only thing "American" about the lyrics are "...O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave" The rest of the lame song ask the question "hey, is that flag still flying at that fort under siege?" A QUESTION! What decent national anthem is a question about a flag set to drinking tune?!

 

[Kutnupe14]

I disagree, wholeheartedly and unreservedly. The line "No refuge" includes the "hirelings", you have to strip that out to claim that it is some oblique reference to "Black Refugees." I interpret each line within the context of the entire poem; I'm certainly not going to interpret lines based on what they could possibly mean if certain words are removed and others are added.

Perhaps we are simply overthinking it. Can we agree that Key disagreed with slaves, fighting for their freedom, against the United States?

 

[Kutnupe14]

I whole heartedly have no problem with slaves attempting to escape to freedom and if I were around back then, I hope I would have been one of the enlightened ones that would have cheerfully assisted with their flight. My support ends when they pick up arms in fighting with the enemy, against my country. At that point they become traitors and if I were fighting in that war, I would have had no reservation shooting anyone fighting for the British.

Lol, "traitors?" To whom?

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Lol, "traitors?" To whom?

lol

 

[Birds Away]

I whole heartedly have no problem with slaves attempting to escape to freedom and if I were around back then, I hope I would have been one of the enlightened ones that would have cheerfully assisted with their flight. My support ends when they pick up arms in fighting with the enemy, against my country. At that point they become traitors and if I were fighting in that war, I would have had no reservation shooting anyone fighting for the British.

Kind of hard to call someone a traitor to a country to which he/she was brought in chains.