Man OCing Robbed of His Gun

[turnandshoot4]

this is fun

Yes it is

 

[AndersonIN]

#1 it's pretty sad that you had to go back over 3 years and to another state to EVEN FIND SOMETHING LIKE THIS! That is if it is such a unbelieveable event just waiting to happen.

#2 it happened right outside of a housing project and has NOTHING TO DO WITH A BAR, ALCOHOL, OR DRINKING, unless others can read something in to this that I can't or will not) Tavern is the name of the rode leading into the housing project that the intersection is just outside of...........

#3 Now walking outside of a housing project away from EVERYTHING else at 4:30 in the a.m. and allowing two individuals in "dark clothing" TO walk up behind you is the ONLY THING WORSE THAN TRYING TO MAKE THIS A PROBLEM FOR THOSE OF US THAT OC!

So put your tin foil hat back on and try again and this time at least try and find something from Indiana! LOL

 

[BloodEclipse]

And the pro-OCers post how they are 100% aware of _everything_ around them, and talk as if someone grabbing their gun, or getting the one up on them, isn't even a possibility.

The only example given is a guy walking around at 4am. I will guarantee you that I would have complete awareness in the given situation.
His lack of awareness made him a target, not the gun he was OCing?
You think two thugs are going to try to take a gun from someone not showing a weakness?
I think not. If you think they would, show me where it has happened.

 

[Jack Ryan]

The only example given is a guy walking around at 4am. I will guarantee you that I would have complete awareness in the given situation.
His lack of awareness made him a target, not the gun he was OCing?
You think two thugs are going to try to take a gun from someone not showing a weakness?
I think not. If you think they would, show me where it has happened.

You are just the guy they are looking for walking through their "living room". Constant total awareness, LOL. CTLG, the Constant Total Awareness Guy.

 

[Indy317]

I do believe Bill addressed this in his post. Why do police OC?

Because they are forced, to some extent. My understand, from taking police classes in the past, is that the entire concept of uniformed officers was due to serious police misconduct back in the day. Some cops were so corrupt, they wouldn't even wear their badge, until they decided someone they didn't like needed some police interaction. It was my understanding that public outrage over "who is and who was" a lawman finally started changing the laws to a more uniform approach. Yes, there is some tactical benefit, but unless OCers are going to start running around, pulling their guns for safety and trying to arrest people, I really don't see any benefit for them. Even a cop who OCs can't out draw a drawn gun.

 

[public servant]

Why do police OC?

I have never known one that was given a choice while in uniform. The overwhelming majority of the ones I know that are not required to wear a uniform CC. If they don't have a jacket over it...they have a badge on their belt next to it.

I cannot think of any I know that OC off duty. I'm sure there are some...but few and far between in my experience. I'm not making assumptions as to why...just answering your question.

As for me personally...I just don't like to OC. Personal preference. But I always have one and a pair of handcuffs...but you won't see them. I don't like the attention I feel it draws.

 

[turnandshoot4]

Please don't tell me "because it's expected"; paradigms are essentially useless for that kind of model. All fire trucks are red, right?

 

[pftraining_in]

If OC is so useless, why does every uniformed police officer carry in that fashion?

The main reason is that a level III retention holster, OC, two pairs of handcuffs, radio, baton, flashlight and a double mag pouch won't fit under a t-shirt or a jacket.

 

[dross]

I've CC'd, OC'd, and gone unarmed.

1. CC'd - No one has taken my gun, nor has there been any crime committed around me.
2. OC'd - No one has taken my gun, nor has there been any crime committed around me.
3. Unarmed - No one has taken my gun, nor has there been any crime committed around me.

Conclusions (based on pure logic, I promise):

1. I am just as likely to have my gun taken, regardless of whether I OC, CC, or go unarmed.
2. My gun is unlikely to be taken, regardless of whether I OC, CC, or go unarmed.
3. I have the exact same tactical advantage in a gunfight whether I OC, CC, or go unarmed.
4. Gunfights don't happen to me.
5. I am a deterrent to crime.
6. Women find me irresistible.

Ridiculous? My joke logic ain't all that far off from some of the logic I read in these OC/CC threads.

Real logic:

1. It is difficult to draw conclusions about any of this, given that it hasn't really been studied, and statistics may not be the best tool for this anyway, given the small sample of people who OC.
2. It is easy to imagine scenarios (including having someone assault you to take your gun) in which OCing would be a tactical disadvantage.
3. It is easy to imagine that OCing could have deterred a crime that would have happened if someone hadn't been OCing .
4. There will always be more hard evidence for number 2 than for number 3, since it's impossible to quantify a thing that didn't happen.
5. Arguing the evidence or lack of evidence for one of these, then arguing "common sense" for the other, depending on which side you're on, destroys your credibility.

Trump card:

Carrying a weapon for personal defense, whether OC or CC, is a right, which trumps the pragmatic arguments.

 

[MTC]

I've CC'd, OC'd, and gone unarmed.

1. CC'd - No one has taken my gun, nor has there been any crime committed around me.
2. OC'd - No one has taken my gun, nor has there been any crime committed around me.
3. Unarmed - No one has taken my gun, nor has there been any crime committed around me.

Conclusions (based on pure logic, I promise):

1. I am just as likely to have my gun taken, regardless of whether I OC, CC, or go unarmed.
2. My gun is unlikely to be taken, regardless of whether I OC, CC, or go unarmed.
3. I have the exact same tactical advantage in a gunfight whether I OC, CC, or go unarmed.
4. Gunfights don't happen to me.
5. I am a deterrent to crime.
6. Women find me irresistible.

Ridiculous? My joke logic ain't all that far off from some of the logic I read in these OC/CC threads.

Real logic:

1. It is difficult to draw conclusions about any of this, given that it hasn't really been studied, and statistics may not be the best tool for this anyway, given the small sample of people who OC.
2. It is easy to imagine scenarios (including having someone assault you to take your gun) in which OCing would be a tactical disadvantage.
3. It is easy to imagine that OCing could have deterred a crime that would have happened if someone hadn't been OCing .
4. There will always be more hard evidence for number 2 than for number 3, since it's impossible to quantify a thing that didn't happen.
5. Arguing the evidence or lack of evidence for one of these, then arguing "common sense" for the other, depending on which side you're on, destroys your credibility.

Trump card:

Carrying a weapon for personal defense, whether OC or CC, is a right, which trumps the pragmatic arguments.

Guards! Seize him! Arrest that man! He must be silenced 'til we find something to charge him with.

 

[rambone]

I think a good comparison would be "people who were robbed while OCing" vs "people who were robbed while not OCing."

Hmmm..from disastercenter.com, there were 447,403 robberies in 2006. One of those, we know, was a man who was OCing. Let's assume an error margin of, well, it doesn't really matter. 5%? 10% 30%? let's say 10%. the numbers still are overwhelmingly more robberies of people who were not OCing than those who were open carrying. I don't feel like doing the math on this one.

Exactly.

Your assumption is comical.
The reason most post their non-events is to show a pattern to those who may be considering OC but may be hesitant.
Each post of non-event shows prospective OCers that they won't be subjected to screaming fleeing masses, won't be thrown to the ground by the cops, and won't be asked to leave every establishment they walk into.
We are not looking for attention, in fact the opposite is true. We want guns worn by citizens to be seen as commonplace as people with cell phones.

That is my belief as well.

If OC is so useless, why does every uniformed police officer carry in that fashion?

Because they are forced, to some extent.

I'm sure I've seen uniformed cops shopping inside stores, eating inside restaurants, and doing a host of other activities that were outside of their job description. All while open carrying.

Even if they were off duty, and with OC being such a liability for theft, I'm surprised these cops didn't lock up their sidearms so they didn't get their pistol stolen at Dunkin Donuts. As we know, they are quite valuable.

Yes, there is some tactical benefit, but unless OCers are going to start running around, pulling their guns for safety and trying to arrest people, I really don't see any benefit for them. Even a cop who OCs can't out draw a drawn gun.

I don't see a lot of benefit to permitting people to verbally trash the concept of Open Carry either, but free speech and bearing arms are both our rights. And those rights will need people to defend them, as long as there are people willing to trash them.

All this from a CC'er. (Except when I want to run around OC'ing and pretend I have the same rights as a police officer)

Carrying a weapon for personal defense, whether OC or CC, is a right, which trumps the pragmatic arguments.

No kidding. The constitution doesn't say that we have the right to bear concealed arms.



Merry Christmas INGO.

 

[SMiller]

Oh great another thread for the CC idiots to talk crap about OC, situation awareness would fix this problem! There is NO way two guys are going to walk up on me at 4am and take my gun, last time I checked it was still dark out at that hour, seems how my M+P is flat black and mostly covered in holster I don't think ANYONE would ever see it in the dark, I wonder how the REAL story goes...

 

[WOLFEMAN]

Incidents like this can happen to anyone. Play it safe,
first one out of the holster wins.

 

[jeremy]

Incidents like this can happen to anyone. Play it safe,
first one out of the holster wins.

No not the first one out of the holster, but the first one who hits wins...

 

[turnandshoot4]

Incidents like this can happen to anyone. Play it safe,
first one out of the holster wins.

And I don't have a shirt or coat to sweep to the side. Well, I probibly now do because it is bitterly cold.

 

[ddenny5]

I think the open carry and concealed carry debate is very silly. I carry concealed about 70 percent of the time because Indiana has seven months of cold weather and that is why I carry concealed. It is cold outside. Now it does depend of the situation and what I will be doing for me to determine if I open carry or conceal carry. I have no problem with those that want to open carry because I see the benefits of both methods. One story is not proof that open carrying is bad and we should not do it.

 

[remymartin]

The BS is associating situational awareness with a trumped up movie action hero persona. (Tony Danza?) So, you're walking down the street at 4:00 in the morning, a time when there a generally few people out. You are carrying a firearm indicating you intentions to to provide yourself with means defend yourself. Yet, you are walking around so aloof as to allow someone to get close enough to touch you without even knowing it. In this case, a lack of situational awareness was at least as responsible for what happened as the known presence of a firearm in his possession.

Remember... He's the boss. There's a time for life and a time for livin' take a chance and chase the wind.......

 

[Beau]

I will go on record to say that OC'ing has merit in certain places. I understand that and have OC'ed, but only while on the clock. When off duty I prefer to CC and for what it's worth I spent a year in a plain clothes unit and CC'ed on duty and loved that when I was doing it. I just prefer to CC.

My only issue is that most of the people I run into, and just through what is posted here, a lot of the OC'ers do it for the attention it gains them. It is that mindset I have a problem with. Yes there are those that don't do it for this reason and I have no issue with that.

What's wrong with OC'ing for attention? Not the only reason I OC. Not even at the top of the list. However, I like when a person inquires about my pistol. I like being able to explain laws and rights to them.

Almost everybody craves attention in some way or another. And there are numerous ways to get that attention. I have yet to meet a person who's sole reason for carrying was to get attention. If that reason was at the top of their list for OC I wouldn't have a problem with it so long as they conducted themselves safely. So I'm curious as to why this would bother you so much?

 

[Josh Ward]

These threads really crack me up.....you can find examples of damn near ANYTHING happening if you just research it.

Its the individuals right to choose HOW they carry, let it go people

 

[Indy317]

What's wrong with OC'ing for attention? Not the only reason I OC. Not even at the top of the list. However, I like when a person inquires about my pistol. I like being able to explain laws and rights to them.

Almost everybody craves attention in some way or another. And there are numerous ways to get that attention. I have yet to meet a person who's sole reason for carrying was to get attention. If that reason was at the top of their list for OC I wouldn't have a problem with it so long as they conducted themselves safely. So I'm curious as to why this would bother you so much?

The issue I have with it is that the same OCers who are craving attention will come here and do a complete 180 if their OCing turns negative (gets kicked out of store, people calling the cops on them, etc..). The hypocrites will then posts how if people don't like OC, they should mind their own business and not call the cops or confront the OCer. Well, they wanted attention, and they got it, so they should just deal with it. You have to take the good with the bad and folks with an "all eyes on me complex" usually can't.