The [Current Year] General Political/Salma Hayek discussion thread, part 4!!!

[BugI02]

https://www.bloomberg.com/gadfly/ar...w-where-those-corporate-tax-savings-are-going
Five Charts That Show How Companies Are Spending Their Tax Savings



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[Route 45]

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/fbis-james-baker-lisa-page-resign

 

[BugI02]

It's time to normalize Karl Marx

With the Soviet Union long dead and China completely abandoning any semblance of Communism aside from the symbols, Marx is no longer the prophet of a world-conquering secular religion. On the other hand, since the 2008 global crisis, the post-Soviet "end of history" triumphalism of neoliberal capitalists has been revealed as a false dawn. DeLong himself has softened considerably on Marx, explaining at length in 2013 what he considers strong and weak points of his works, and providing a fairly solid leftist reading list in 2016.


In the next 100 years, let us remember Marx as just a top-tier intellectual — no more, but no less either — who can be read without dread or ecstasy.

WTeverlovingF?

"Boxcars now loading on track 13. Watch your step"

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[Alpo]

Marx's labor theory of value is flawed. However, his observations/criticisms of capitalism are substantially true. Americans are generally unable to discuss Marx's ideas because they have been demonized. So be it. Things aren't going to substantially change in the USA in this generation or the next.

 

[nonobaddog]

 

[Kutnupe14]

Marx's labor theory of value is flawed. However, his observations/criticisms of capitalism are substantially true. Americans are generally unable to discuss Marx's ideas because they have been demonized. So be it. Things aren't going to substantially change in the USA in this generation or the next.

+1 people also aren't considering the time and place he lived.

 

[Alpo]

+1 people also aren't considering the time and place he lived.

I find it similar to a discussion of Hinduism among an average group of protestants: they know nothing about Hindu philosophy or history, yet KNOW that it is incorrect and untrue because Christianity is the true religion....even though there are 1 billion Hindu adherants in the world.

We all understand the downsides of communism as it was implemented in the 20th century. On the other hand, Russia went from the poorest country in Europe to a superpower in less than 75 years. And yes, Stalin killed some of my family, so I'm not an advocate.

If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.


― Sun Tzu, The Art of War

 

[nonobaddog]

 

[indiucky]

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You're learning well Young Grasshopper....

Those are reallly nice.....

 

[nonobaddog]

 

[nonobaddog]

 

[OakRiver]

It's time to normalize Karl Marx
WTeverlovingF?

"Boxcars now loading on track 13. Watch your step"

​

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Did the article cover why someone whose ideas have failed every time they have been implemented be considered a "top-tier intellectual" instead of consigned to the dustbin of history like the astronomers who thought that the earth was the center of the universe?

 

[jamil]

Marx was full of ****. There are some legitimate criticisms of capitalism. Marx overstated them.

 

[BugI02]

Did the article cover why someone whose ideas have failed every time they have been implemented be considered a "top-tier intellectual" instead of consigned to the dustbin of history like the astronomers who thought that the earth was the center of the universe?

I find it similar to a discussion of Hinduism among an average group of protestants: they know nothing about Hindu philosophy or history, yet KNOW that it is incorrect and untrue because Christianity is the true religion....even though there are 1 billion Hindu adherants in the world.

We all understand the downsides of communism as it was implemented in the 20th century. On the other hand, Russia went from the poorest country in Europe to a superpower in less than 75 years. And yes, Stalin killed some of my family, so I'm not an advocate.

Unknown. Even as sharp a mind of Alpo seems to have fallen prey to the delusion that the fault lies not with communism, but merely in its implementation

Using order to deal with the disorderly, using calm to deal with the clamorous, is mastering the heart

 

[Kutnupe14]

Marx was full of ****. There are some legitimate criticisms of capitalism. Marx overstated them.

In modern context, yes. In a 19th Century context, certainly not.

 

[jamil]

In modern context, yes. In a 19th Century context, certainly not.

Of course in the day, his criticisms were more valid, but be was still full of glock for his time.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Of course in the day, his criticisms were more valid, but be was still full of glock for his time.

If you're speaking of his general thoughts, maybe. But we were talking about Capitalism, and Marx's comments were related to it's relationship with labor. He was not full of glock.

 

[jamil]

If you're speaking of his general thoughts, maybe. But we were talking about Capitalism, and Marx's comments were related to it's relationship with labor. He was not full of glock.

No. Marx got some things right. But he got enough stuff wrong that we can say he was full of ****. If we look at economics as a game that we play, and the particular economic game we’re playing is capitalism, he mostly got the rules by which we played that game in 1850 right. Something he got horribly wrong was how the rules would evolve. And the thing that caused him to get that wrong was the particular container load of **** that he was full of. He got human nature wrong.

And getting away from the discussion of Marx, something that is an undesirable flaw in capitalism is the rules which don’t account for those who don’t fit well within a merit based system. For those who do, it’s all fine and dandy if the rich get way richer and the rest get only a little bit richer. That’s sustainable. But there comes a point where the people at the bottom of the merit chain get so far below the people on the next rung that they’re just incapable of being satisfied with that. If the stats are true that the best predictor of violence in a society is disparity of wealth, that supports what I’m saying. If the difference between the have-nothings and the haves-just-enough’s is really big, it results in violence like we see in inner cities.

Back to Marx, we don’t get to claim he was right in any of his predictions when we’re using those predictions to bring about the revolution he predicted. He predicted that capitalism isn’t sustainable, and would eventually end by revolution. But capitalism has evolved in a way he didn’t predict. It has generally resulted in lifting most people up. The criticisms today are overstated by people who thought the revolution would come naturally, and so they attempt to ignore the successes of capitalism to convince people that Marx was right. No. He wasn’t. Instead of indulging the container of **** Marx was full of, let’s figure out a way to further evolved the system most compatible with human nature. Let’s figure out why peolle stack up at zero and help them have meaningful lives in a meritocratic system.

 

[Alpo]

Marx claimed that growth is unsustainable causing capitalism to be cyclical. Das Kapital (c. 1867) is NOT the Communist Manifesto ( c. 1848)

 

[Kutnupe14]

No. Marx got some things right. But he got enough stuff wrong that we can say he was full of ****. If we look at economics as a game that we play, and the particular economic game we’re playing is capitalism, he mostly got the rules by which we played that game in 1850 right. Something he got horribly wrong was how the rules would evolve. And the thing that caused him to get that wrong was the particular container load of **** that he was full of. He got human nature wrong.

And getting away from the discussion of Marx, something that is an undesirable flaw in capitalism is the rules which don’t account for those who don’t fit well within a merit based system. For those who do, it’s all fine and dandy if the rich get way richer and the rest get only a little bit richer. That’s sustainable. But there comes a point where the people at the bottom of the merit chain get so far below the people on the next rung that they’re just incapable of being satisfied with that. If the stats are true that the best predictor of violence in a society is disparity of wealth, that supports what I’m saying. If the difference between the have-nothings and the haves-just-enough’s is really big, it results in violence like we see in inner cities.

Back to Marx, we don’t get to claim he was right in any of his predictions when we’re using those predictions to bring about the revolution he predicted. He predicted that capitalism isn’t sustainable, and would eventually end by revolution. But capitalism has evolved in a way he didn’t predict. It has generally resulted in lifting most people up. The criticisms today are overstated by people who thought the revolution would come naturally, and so they attempt to ignore the successes of capitalism to convince people that Marx was right. No. He wasn’t. Instead of indulging the container of **** Marx was full of, let’s figure out a way to further evolved the system most compatible with human nature. Let’s figure out why peolle stack up at zero and help them have meaningful lives in a meritocratic system.

Have you actually read Marx in-depth? From the part I bolded, it appears that you have not. You're speaking from the perspective of a nation, insularly, while ignoring it's effects on the foreign labor it benefits from. Don't look at Capitalism, as "uplifting" Americans, which it surely did... look at Capitalism (from Marx's POV) as the exploitation of labor outside of the proletariat. Proletariat being anyone or thing that exploits labor for personal gain. That majority of labor that provides goods and services to the most capitalistic of places has most certainly NOT uplifted people. There's a reason why child and slave labor still exists.