“No firearms” signs this weekend for NRA convention

[Dead Duck]

A prosecutor is God when it comes to what get's filed & what doesn't. It's why in one county the prosecutor enjoys his bourbon, so OWI's aren't prosecuted very heavily. But the next county over, the prosecutor had a family member killed by a drunk driver, so get what they prosecute heavily? There's statute, then there's what the prosecutor will file. Hell, they teach that in basic academy law. Surprised they didn't cover that when you went to law school.
Wait, did you go to law school?

I explained based on 15 yrs of police work in Marion County how the Marion county prosecutor's office handles trespasses. I also stated how it varies in other counties. Even mentioned the gray areas so common in law.
So, how exactly did I give "less than optimal legal advice"?

Just when you think you know everything, something new pops up.

Don't feel bad. You are never too old to go back to school and learn more stuff. If your brain is too full, just take notes and pull them out later.
Well, 15 years is a long time. You know they stopped using revolvers, right?

 

[KellyinAvon]

I doubt you will see these only on Mass Ave. Yeah, there may be one or two outside that liberal strip, but I doubt it.

If was thinking that too Cm. I just checked my no guns=no money card inventory: 4 each.

 

[Selfpreservation]

Just when you think you know everything, something new pops up.

Don't feel bad. You are never too old to go back to school and learn more stuff. If your brain is too full, just take notes and pull them out later.
Well, 15 years is a long time. You know they stopped using revolvers, right?

"Well, I ain't pass the bar but I know a little bit"

 

[Scuba591]

If was thinking that too Cm. I just checked my no guns=no money card inventory: 4 each.

I am all for using the cards to express a difference in opinion. My question... By going into the establishment, most likely while carrying, to hand the card to the manager... Aren't we breaking the law? I wonder how that would play out with a firm stance type of manager..

 

[MarkC]

A prosecutor is God when it comes to what get's filed & what doesn't. It's why in one county the prosecutor enjoys his bourbon, so OWI's aren't prosecuted very heavily. But the next county over, the prosecutor had a family member killed by a drunk driver, so get what they prosecute heavily? There's statute, then there's what the prosecutor will file. Hell, they teach that in basic academy law. Surprised they didn't cover that when you went to law school.
Wait, did you go to law school?

I explained based on 15 yrs of police work in Marion County how the Marion county prosecutor's office handles trespasses. I also stated how it varies in other counties. Even mentioned the gray areas so common in law.
So, how exactly did I give "less than optimal legal advice"?

As for your "less than optimal legal advice," I think that's been asked and answered repeatedly across a few threads. The first step in learning is coming to realize there is something you do not know.

Just because the MCPO's general policy is to not file trespass charges based on entry denied by a sign does not mean that it isn't going to happen. The last actual custodial arrest I made before my retirement was in Marion County and involved an individual who had trespassed into an apartment complex pool in violation of a sign. The prosecutor filed it as a trespass, and the defendant plead guilty. Granted, that was in 2014, but it can happen.

 

[Gaffer]

I am all for using the cards to express a difference in opinion. My question... By going into the establishment, most likely while carrying, to hand the card to the manager... Aren't we breaking the law? I wonder how that would play out with a firm stance type of manager..

Just open the door and yell that you need a manager. When he comes out to see what the heck is going on, hand him a card :>)

I am pretty sure you would never, ever want any legal advice from me!

Ron

 

[SmileDocHill]

A prosecutor is God when it comes to what get's filed & what doesn't. It's why in one county the prosecutor enjoys his bourbon, so OWI's aren't prosecuted very heavily. But the next county over, the prosecutor had a family member killed by a drunk driver, so get what they prosecute heavily? There's statute, then there's what the prosecutor will file. Hell, they teach that in basic academy law. Surprised they didn't cover that when you went to law school.
Wait, did you go to law school?

I explained based on 15 yrs of police work in Marion County how the Marion county prosecutor's office handles trespasses. I also stated how it varies in other counties. Even mentioned the gray areas so common in law.
So, how exactly did I give "less than optimal legal advice"?

The red part summarizes the intent I read into your original post. I assumed everyone in the conversation knew that all the laws being discussed here were state laws and not county specific. I'm confused why your post was construed as bad legal advice, I took it more as how the culture of Marion county is likely to respond (vs a non-democrat dominated area). Isn't it a theme on most of these discussions to factor in where in the state someone is referring to?

 

[Chewie]

"Well, I ain't pass the bar but I know a little bit"

But the important question yet to be answered.....did you stay at a Holiday Inn last night?

 

[Cameramonkey]

I am all for using the cards to express a difference in opinion. My question... By going into the establishment, most likely while carrying, to hand the card to the manager... Aren't we breaking the law? I wonder how that would play out with a firm stance type of manager..

Meh. By the time the manager figures out what is going on, you are out the door and down the sidewalk. If he calls after you, keep walking because you are done with the interaction.

(IANAL, this is not legal advice, just what I would do based on how unlikely after the fact prosecution would be... especially since you didnt also leave a copy of your ID for them to find you later)

 

[2A_Tom]

I think that 50 or 100 people, many in groups. calling a manager to the door at lunch time would give him pause about his decision to post the sign.

This would be something that could be coordinated. See someone walking with NRA gear and ask him/ her to stop for a minute and drop off a card.

 

[2A_Tom]

I think that 50 or 100 people, many in groups. calling a manager to the door at lunch time would give him pause about his decision to post the sign.

This would be something that could be coordinated. See someone walking with NRA gear and ask him/ her to stop for a minute and drop off a card.

ETA: VUPDblue's first rule.

 

[Selfpreservation]

The red part summarizes the intent I read into your original post. I assumed everyone in the conversation knew that all the laws being discussed here were state laws and not county specific. I'm confused why your post was construed as bad legal advice, I took it more as how the culture of Marion county is likely to respond (vs a non-democrat dominated area). Isn't it a theme on most of these discussions to factor in where in the state someone is referring to?

Haha..don't be. He's a defense attorney. They view what I teach as a threat to their wallet. They always want the first say, yet they are third in line when it comes to an arrest. I don't take it personally or get upset. I have been coming here for a decade or longer and have seen it over and over. Some people just aren't willing to accept they don't know it all. It's usually the ones with the 5 digit post counts that are the most confrontational. They think there opinion matters the most and love giving it. Imagine if they spent that time actually training and learning! Sadly, some here think because an attorney that talks a lot on this forum is the end all be all when it comes to law. They aren't. I have even shown where attorneys are saying the same things I say. I explained I have had attorneys as clients that go through my training involving legal issues, so what I teach isn't opinion. But SOME people just don't let facts get in the way of their argument. I'm not here for them and couldn't care much less about their opinions.

Be safe. If you have any questions feel free to reach out to me through the website.

 

[Selfpreservation]

But the important question yet to be answered.....did you stay at a Holiday Inn last night?

I was going to but they had a no guns allowed sign! Apparently those are rock solid for an arrest

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I was going to but they had a no guns allowed sign! Apparently those are rock solid for an arrest

No guns is not the issue, the issue is a denial of entry. There are many roads to enlightenment and Criminal Trespass, and denial of entry is a way to Criminal Trespass.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

The red part summarizes the intent I read into your original post. I assumed everyone in the conversation knew that all the laws being discussed here were state laws and not county specific. I'm confused why your post was construed as bad legal advice, I took it more as how the culture of Marion county is likely to respond (vs a non-democrat dominated area). Isn't it a theme on most of these discussions to factor in where in the state someone is referring to?

Denial of entry is a way to Criminal Trespass.

Saying that "_____ County doesn't do it that way" is less than optimal as: 1. Marion County does file on Criminal Trespass after denial of entry with signs, 2. The Prosecuting Attorney is Terry Curry. The same Terry Curry that has expressed outright hostility to citizens exercising their constitutional right to carry a handgun.

 

[Leadeye]

So there will be thousands and thousands of pistol packing money spending possible customers in the downtown area and these idiots will be passing up the opportunity.........

Good point, town fills up with NRA members and somebody wants to put up a no guns allowed sign?

Always follow the money....


....as it goes down the street to a place with no sign.

 

[HoughMade]

From now on, all of my legal advice will be based upon the premise: "I've never seen it."

I'm expecting a few "In the Matter of HoughMade" cases by the end of the summer.

 

[2A_Tom]

Bu bu but, he is a trainer and teaches that you don't need a lawyer, so all of you money grubbin' lawyers just want to make him look bad.

ETA: Stink! I forgot the grape again.

 

[HoughMade]

Look, I don't want to make anyone look bad. Seriously. My point is simply that there is a difference between what can be charged and what can result in a criminal conviction and what is likely to happen.

If I were practicing criminal law, the quickest way I could think of getting myself in trouble is basing advice on what is probable​ without warning my client of what is possible. Sure as anything, the moment you tell a client "no problem", he'll be the one arrested.

 

[Dead Duck]

Look, I don't want to make anyone look bad. Seriously. My point is simply that there is a difference between what can be charged and what can result in a criminal conviction and what is likely to happen.

If I were practicing criminal law, the quickest way I could think of getting myself in trouble is basing advice on what is probable​ without warning my client of what is possible. Sure as anything, the moment you tell a client "no problem", he'll be the one arrested.

You could always send in your sidekick, Conrad, as a test case to see if those signs hold water.