The [Current Year] General Political/Salma Hayek discussion thread, part 4!!!

[T.Lex]

Personal foul, T.Lex. Making a self-referenced-TWSS. Half the distance the goal line. 3rd down.


A proper TWSS must refer to someone else's statement. Applying TWSS to self-referenced statements invalidate the TWSS. A personal foul of 15 yards is assessed for violations.

I appeal to VAR!

 

[jamil]

My problem with the Deep State Conspiracy is that I have some practical experience "inside" government. Yeah, probably not "deep" enough. (TWSS)

But still, my takeaway is that the Deep State Conspiracy requires a belief in a group of people who are (1)effective in manipulating government (2) keeping quiet about it (3) over a long period of time.

My experience is that those are 3 different buckets of people with little overlap between any 2 buckets and no overlap with all 3.

Many people in government - especially elected positions - eventually tend to guard their little fiefdoms. That I understand. But the Deep State Conspiracy requires more than that.

So let's turn it around - who, either by name or role, is part of the Deep State?

I wouldn't say "deep state" per se. But I do see some evidence that makes it reasonable to suspect that there are some people in government working against the administration. The many leaks make that quite obvious. I'm not suggesting a grand "deep state" conspiracy. At most I could suspect that it's just some ideologically like-minded people who are likely acting on their own, maybe thinking they're part of the #resistance (Or, as Alpo would like for me to call it, LARPing) or in concert with others inside or outside of government.

 

[jamil]

I appeal to VAR!

DENIED!


AND reported.

 

[T.Lex]

I wouldn't say "deep state" per se. But I do see some evidence that makes it reasonable to suspect that there are some people in government working against the administration. The many leaks make that quite obvious. I'm not suggesting a grand "deep state" conspiracy. At most I could suspect that it's just some ideologically like-minded people who are likely acting on their own, maybe thinking they're part of the #resistance (Or, as Alpo would like for me to call it, LARPing) or in concert with others inside or outside of government.

That's happened in every administration that I can remember - leaking by people who either have their own petty turf battles to fight or who aren't all-in on the POTUS's policies. I see absolutely nothing special about that in Trump's administration. (Actually, he may've been better at actually rooting it out than others.)

I think it was under GWB that leakers leaked how frustrated he was with leakers. And he was hardly a radical policy wonk.

 

[T.Lex]

DENIED!


AND reported.

Fine.

I'll go find me a Ren Faire or something.

 

[Alpo]

Exactly why would you assume I've used those terms to become hip and trendy? Really. Why would you assume that? Expand your imagination a little and get back to me.

Question: when you were in-line skating, did you wear your ballcap with the bill facing the rear? (Welders and MLB catchers excepted).

 

[nonobaddog]

My problem with the Deep State Conspiracy is that I have some practical experience "inside" government. Yeah, probably not "deep" enough. (TWSS)
But still, my takeaway is that the Deep State Conspiracy requires a belief in a group of people who are (1)effective in manipulating government (2) keeping quiet about it (3) over a long period of time.
My experience is that those are 3 different buckets of people with little overlap between any 2 buckets and no overlap with all 3.
Many people in government - especially elected positions - eventually tend to guard their little fiefdoms. That I understand. But the Deep State Conspiracy requires more than that.
So let's turn it around - who, either by name or role, is part of the Deep State?

We could start with the ones that have been caught like Strzok and Lisa Page. When there are some there are more.
Also there certainly has to be willing deep-staters in the IRS or that crap would have never got off the ground. The odds are very good they are still there.


On the other hand - are you seriously asking a bunch of us forum members to find and identify bad players in the federal government? Uh, I'm a little busy this morning, gotta take out the garbage.

 

[jamil]

Does asking foreign countries, who may or may not conform to the rule of law very much, to conduct investigations on US politicians really make sense? I mean, doesn't that perhaps invite an investigation of the politician doing the asking?

Whether you think Trump is dirty or not, some of these countries might actually come up with something against him - whether real or not. That doesn't seem like the best result.

On another GenPol topic, going this hard after Biden seems... unnecessary. Maybe even a bit personal at this point. If Trump views Biden as a weak candidate, then sit on stuff and wait for him to get the nomination!

Seems to me that Biden needed Bernie and Warren both to split the bat**** crazy socialist vote to keep him on top of the polls. The bat**** crazy SJW vote is already split more than a dozen ways, and they don't amount to much anyway.

But with this health setback, and his campaign suspended, I kinda think Bernies done. It seems reasonable to suspect that Warren will absorb most of his bat-**** crazies. So Warren may have enough supporters with Bernie out of the picture to knock Biden off the hill. So yeah, as it turns out, going after Biden is unnecessary. That is if he was going after him just to dig up dirt. It certainly could be the case. But that's not certain.

 

[jamil]

Question: when you were in-line skating, did you wear your ballcap with the bill facing the rear? (Welders and MLB catchers excepted).

Question: Does the orange pill make you dizzy? Or is that Friday's regiment?

 

[T.Lex]

We could start with the ones that have been caught like Strzok and Lisa Page. When there are some there are more.
Also there certainly has to be willing deep-staters in the IRS or that crap would have never got off the ground. The odds are very good they are still there.


On the other hand - are you seriously asking a bunch of us forum members to find and identify bad players in the federal government? Uh, I'm a little busy this morning, gotta take out the garbage.

Ok, let's start with a definition of the Deep State. How would we know a member of that if we saw them? That they don't like POTUS?

Heck, I worked for political bosses I disagreed with at least 1 that is completely contemptuous. I think most Americans have had bosses like that. (Or been bosses like that.)

The Deep State has to be more than just disgruntled employees.

(BTW, IIRC, Strzok favored re-opening the investigation of HRC's emails, so was that the Deep State working against HRC?)

 

[T.Lex]

Seems to me that Biden needed Bernie and Warren both to split the bat**** crazy socialist vote to keep him on top of the polls. The bat**** crazy SJW vote is already split more than a dozen ways, and they don't amount to much anyway.

But with this health setback, and his campaign suspended, I kinda think Bernies done. It seems reasonable to suspect that Warren will absorb most of his bat-**** crazies. So Warren may have enough supporters with Bernie out of the picture to knock Biden off the hill. So yeah, as it turns out, going after Biden is unnecessary. That is if he was going after him just to dig up dirt. It certainly could be the case. But that's not certain.

From Trump's perspective, Biden might be the biggest inmate in the yard, so punching him in the nose (repeatedly) might help keep the rest of the inmates off balance, too.

 

[KG1]

From Trump's perspective, Biden might be the biggest inmate in the yard, so punching him in the nose (repeatedly) might help keep the rest of the inmates off balance, too.

Well if that's the case Trump just took another swing at Biden's schnoz. He's urging China to probe the Bidens now.

 

[jamil]

We could start with the ones that have been caught like Strzok and Lisa Page. When there are some there are more.
Also there certainly has to be willing deep-staters in the IRS or that crap would have never got off the ground. The odds are very good they are still there.


On the other hand - are you seriously asking a bunch of us forum members to find and identify bad players in the federal government? Uh, I'm a little busy this morning, gotta take out the garbage.

Yeah, but the way "deep state" is being thrown around, it kinda implies a much grander, more coordinated narrative than what we have evidence for. Certainly Strzok and Page were ideologues in high enough places that they could work against the administration. And they were outed and fired for it. Not exactly evidence of the grander narrative of coordinated secret manipulation of government that the term implies. So it's not nothing. But it's not exactly deep state either, at least not evidently. I mean you have to fill in some missing dots to get you there.

 

[jamil]

From Trump's perspective, Biden might be the biggest inmate in the yard, so punching him in the nose (repeatedly) might help keep the rest of the inmates off balance, too.

Yeah, but while we're speculating, we could say, Biden is also a corrupt ********** who needs investigating. Both are probably true. By the way, if we use the Kut standard of impeachment, if Biden were to win the general election, and the House is taken over by Republicans, he should be immediately impeached. Because hate the game, not the playa.

 

[Alpo]

Question: Does the orange pill make you dizzy? Or is that Friday's regiment?

Vene Vidi Vici

 

[jamil]

Vene Vidi Vici

There's Alpo, aged and trying to act like the cool kids.

 

[nonobaddog]

Yeah, but the way "deep state" is being thrown around, it kinda implies a much grander, more coordinated narrative than what we have evidence for. Certainly Strzok and Page were ideologues in high enough places that they could work against the administration. And they were outed and fired for it. Not exactly evidence of the grander narrative of coordinated secret manipulation of government that the term implies. So it's not nothing. But it's not exactly deep state either, at least not evidently. I mean you have to fill in some missing dots to get you there.

Yes I agree but that is the very nature and essence of 'deep-state'. Those who want to deny it exists can point to the fact that there is not enough evidence. Those who suspect it exists need to find the evidence. If they already had the evidence it would no longer be 'deep'.

The evidence such as it is now centers around how the alphabets treat cases along party lines - like finding hildebeest not guilty before the investigation even started and the exuberant auditing of conservative businesses.

 

[T.Lex]

The evidence such as it is now centers around how the alphabets treat cases along party lines ...

Wait.

That can't be evidence of Deep State, because the parties trade off who is in power. Alphabets doing political stuff is... politics. Elections have consequences and all that.

I always understood the Deep State Conspiracy to be a group of people in control so it didn't matter which party was in power.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

INGO squaring off against the deep state bogeyman

 

[jamil]

Well. Just to refine the definition, it's a group of bureaucrats who secretly control or manipulate government in a coordinated way despite who is in power. What we have in this case are some individuals who were/are obviously working against this administration. But we're lacking the evidence that it's coordinated and that it would be doing its own thing regardless of the administration in power. I think the only common thread is individuals with TDS.