Property Taxes - My annual rant

[ATOMonkey]

Some truth here. But again, when your kids are no longer using the schools or the other things that this insidious tax covers it should be reduced or just go away. If you give these turds a bottomless pit of funds to take from it is like a drug. We saw this school year that there are some huge round balls set beside the entrances to all the schools on the west side. Huge ornate spheres. WTF purpose is served. How much money was wasted on these useless ornate pieces and why. It makes zero sense. IPS is closing schools due to the exodus from the city to the burbs. Yet they continue to suck funds from property owners at an alarming rate and cry for more. This has got to stop.
We sent our kids to private schools and still paid this terrible tax. We are now retired and long disconnected from that responsibility. Yet the state is still a burden.

The way the state funds public schools is just ridiculous. No one, even the people who came up with it, understands the school funding formula. IMO, all schools should be locally funded ONLY, and state property tax should be eliminated.

Where it gets sticky is likely that darn constitution that has free education written into it... That is something that needs to be changed too.

In my experience, education is a direct function of culture, not dollars or buildings or anything else. I have seen just about every combination of rich, poor, smart, dumb, and all it all comes down to who really gives a damn.

I have also had to deal with indoctrination, but I don't know if it's from the school, or just our culture at large. It's pretty easy to undo though.

Climate change... - Tell me what the optimal climate is for our planet. End of discussion.

Social justice... -Tell me why feelings matter, or how they produce results. End of discussion.

Origin of stuff... If all material, time, and space are finite (currently accepted model), and nothing can be self creating, what is the transcendent infinite entity that created everything?

Evolution... Knowing that chance and probability are not the same thing, calculate the number of variables involved in the mutation of a single protein, and determine the chance and probability that the mutation will be beneficial to the organism.

The "5 Why Cause and Corrective Action" model usually fixes 99% of idiotic indoctrination. Well...that and actually knowing stuff.

 

[doddg]

The way the state funds public schools is just ridiculous. No one, even the people who came up with it, understands the school funding formula. IMO, all schools should be locally funded ONLY, and state property tax should be eliminated.
Where it gets sticky is likely that darn constitution that has free education written into it... That is something that needs to be changed too.
In my experience, education is a direct function of culture, not dollars or buildings or anything else. I have seen just about every combination of rich, poor, smart, dumb, and all it all comes down to who really gives a damn.
I have also had to deal with indoctrination, but I don't know if it's from the school, or just our culture at large. It's pretty easy to undo though.
Climate change... - Tell me what the optimal climate is for our planet. End of discussion.
Social justice... -Tell me why feelings matter, or how they produce results. End of discussion.
Origin of stuff... If all material, time, and space are finite (currently accepted model), and nothing can be self creating, what is the transcendent infinite entity that created everything?
Evolution... Knowing that chance and probability are not the same thing, calculate the number of variables involved in the mutation of a single protein, and determine the chance and probability that the mutation will be beneficial to the organism.
The "5 Why Cause and Corrective Action" model usually fixes 99% of idiotic indoctrination. Well...that and actually knowing stuff.

I generally stay out of political & religious discussions b/c of the lack of productivity/education/insight in the same, with people repeating what they have heard w/o benefit of research/truth.
Such is the way of opinions: the good, the bad, & the ugly.
Sociologically speaking, people vote their party or are in their religion (or lack thereof) b/c of their family background: I don't remember the exact statistic anymore but it is conclusive and w/o question.

That said, I thoroughly enjoyed reading your succinct addressing of complex issues.
You will be brought to task by those who are given to different views, but that is what a civil discussion is all about & done properly, are a pleasure to read and enlightening.

As a teacher, I resented the Superintendent being paid $200,000 (much more with benefits) while the teacher of 2 decades with 2 kids has their pay frozen for 7 yrs. (a friend at IPS where I worked since 1988) and is making less than $50,000 (could have been less, don't remember).
School funding has always been & will continue to be problematic: it was in the 70s where I taught 10 yrs. in a private school.
Look at what happened with Britain's system: we are headed to underfunded compromised public schools as they, b/c of funding practices.
Some (many) would say we are there (depends on where you live).
Believe it or not, there are places in the US who get over $20,000 per student, and those that get $2500 per student (an older statistic when I was working on my Masters during the 90s).

Climate change: someone is lying, boldly, for economic gain (same old story: follow the money).

I'll stop b/c my opinions are extremely conservative, although I suspect many here share the more "timeless" traditional views about sociological issues that our society is now "confused" about and we are going to pay a price looking to government to solve our problems and people don't get that government is the problem.
Sorry, I said I'd desist.

I did enjoy your input: thanks for sharing.

 

[rob63]

Ultimately, as in most things, the problem lies with the general population.

I have a friend that served on the local school board. She told me that the vast majority of the emails, calls, etc. that she got from parents had to do with the quality of the athletic programs rather than education. She said she doubted they would hear anything from anyone if they closed down the library, but they wouldn't dare touch the football program.

I would guess the Taj Mahal schools are because parents care more about how the building looks than what the test scores are.

 

[churchmouse]

I generally stay out of political & religious discussions b/c of the lack of productivity/education/insight in the same, with people repeating what they have heard w/o benefit of research/truth.
Such is the way of opinions: the good, the bad, & the ugly.
Sociologically speaking, people vote their party or are in their religion (or lack thereof) b/c of their family background: I don't remember the exact statistic anymore but it is conclusive and w/o question.

That said, I thoroughly enjoyed reading your succinct addressing of complex issues.
You will be brought to task by those who are given to different views, but that is what a civil discussion is all about & done properly, are a pleasure to read and enlightening.

As a teacher, I resented the Superintendent being paid $200,000 (much more with benefits) while the teacher of 2 decades with 2 kids has their pay frozen for 7 yrs. (a friend at IPS where I worked since 1988) and is making less than $50,000 (could have been less, don't remember).
School funding has always been & will continue to be problematic: it was in the 70s where I taught 10 yrs. in a private school.
Look at what happened with Britain's system: we are headed to underfunded compromised public schools as they, b/c of funding practices.
Some (many) would say we are there (depends on where you live).
Believe it or not, there are places in the US who get over $20,000 per student, and those that get $2500 per student (an older statistic when I was working on my Masters during the 90s).

Climate change: someone is lying, boldly, for economic gain (same old story: follow the money).

I'll stop b/c my opinions are extremely conservative, although I suspect many here share the more "timeless" traditional views about sociological issues that our society is now "confused" about and we are going to pay a price looking to government to solve our problems and people don't get that government is the problem.
Sorry, I said I'd desist.

I did enjoy your input: thanks for sharing.

Very conservative.

 

[churchmouse]

Ultimately, as in most things, the problem lies with the general population.

I have a friend that served on the local school board. She told me that the vast majority of the emails, calls, etc. that she got from parents had to do with the quality of the athletic programs rather than education. She said she doubted they would hear anything from anyone if they closed down the library, but they wouldn't dare touch the football program.

I would guess the Taj Mahal schools are because parents care more about how the building looks than what the test scores are.

As society changes.........

 

[jamil]

My kids went/go to an online charter school, so it is public and has to meet the same standards. They did fine on standardized tests, if that’s important. My son completed his B.S. in Information Systems in 3 years with about an A- average. My daughter is a sophomore in college and is at a 4.0 GPA.

Online learning can be as good or better than traditional learning. My son attended a private regionally accredited school for the first few years of high school. Then he switched to the local public high school. The public high school he went to is one of the best in the state, but he said that the curriculum at the private online school was more rigorous.

Point is, there isn’t any reason why online school can’t replace traditional schools. But there’s a whole institutional reason why it won’t happen anytime soon. Switching to a primarily online model is a change society has a hard time accepting as valid, for one thing. Lots of stigmas to break. Friends, family, neighbors were convinced that we were neglecting his education by letting him attend online. Until his report card was consistently A’s in the traditional school just like in the online school.

 

[HoughMade]

Let's face facts- there will always have to be schools that take the kids outside the home because too many families do not have someone who can be home during the day.

...and this is only one of the reasons why "traditional" school will remain the norm for quite a while.

 

[ATOMonkey]

Ultimately, as in most things, the problem lies with the general population.

I have a friend that served on the local school board. She told me that the vast majority of the emails, calls, etc. that she got from parents had to do with the quality of the athletic programs rather than education. She said she doubted they would hear anything from anyone if they closed down the library, but they wouldn't dare touch the football program.

I would guess the Taj Mahal schools are because parents care more about how the building looks than what the test scores are.

My wife teaches the special needs kids, and the vast majority of them have parenting issues. One mother doesn't know what medication her son is taking, how much or when. She never looks in his backpack, and has no idea what he does at school. Dad travels so she is "overwhelmed" and just can't be bothered to deal with school issues. Other kids come to school obviously un-bathed for days on end. There are some that have never been told "NO" at home and assume school works the same way. A lot of these kids are transient and don't live anywhere for much longer than a couple of months.

It really sucks, because we do have an autistic kid and know that putting in the time and effort, as a parent, can yield huge results for your kids. It just blows my mind that there are parents who couldn't care any less about their children's education. After talking with them I've come to understand that they really don't value their own education, and are just fine with their children walking the same path they did.

 

[ATOMonkey]

I generally stay out of political & religious discussions b/c of the lack of productivity/education/insight in the same, with people repeating what they have heard w/o benefit of research/truth.
Such is the way of opinions: the good, the bad, & the ugly.
Sociologically speaking, people vote their party or are in their religion (or lack thereof) b/c of their family background: I don't remember the exact statistic anymore but it is conclusive and w/o question.

That said, I thoroughly enjoyed reading your succinct addressing of complex issues.
You will be brought to task by those who are given to different views, but that is what a civil discussion is all about & done properly, are a pleasure to read and enlightening.

As a teacher, I resented the Superintendent being paid $200,000 (much more with benefits) while the teacher of 2 decades with 2 kids has their pay frozen for 7 yrs. (a friend at IPS where I worked since 1988) and is making less than $50,000 (could have been less, don't remember).
School funding has always been & will continue to be problematic: it was in the 70s where I taught 10 yrs. in a private school.
Look at what happened with Britain's system: we are headed to underfunded compromised public schools as they, b/c of funding practices.
Some (many) would say we are there (depends on where you live).
Believe it or not, there are places in the US who get over $20,000 per student, and those that get $2500 per student (an older statistic when I was working on my Masters during the 90s).

Climate change: someone is lying, boldly, for economic gain (same old story: follow the money).

I'll stop b/c my opinions are extremely conservative, although I suspect many here share the more "timeless" traditional views about sociological issues that our society is now "confused" about and we are going to pay a price looking to government to solve our problems and people don't get that government is the problem.
Sorry, I said I'd desist.

I did enjoy your input: thanks for sharing.

You're welcome! At the very least it gets them thinking. Most of these kids have never been exposed to an opposing view point, or at the very least, been taught to question things.

I can tell you that the current curriculum is really lacking in the promotion of curiosity. It's more, "this is the answer," than, "go find the answer."

 

[ATOMonkey]

Let's face facts- there will always have to be schools that take the kids outside the home because too many families do not have someone who can be home during the day.

...and this is only one of the reasons why "traditional" school will remain the norm for quite a while.

"Free" daycare... Our company is pretty flexible with work hours, but the households with 2 working parents HATE snow days and 2 hour delays and what not.

 

[churchmouse]

"Free" daycare... Our company is pretty flexible with work hours, but the households with 2 working parents HATE snow days and 2 hour delays and what not.

It was no different when I was a kid (oh so long ago) as my parents would never ever ever miss a days work unless God himself made them take us to the Dr or dentist. Even then my jaw had to be seriously swollen with an abscess to get that done despite Gods intervention. We walked to school. But heck, what was a delay. What was a snow day. I can remember maybe 2 or 3 times the world came to a halt due to snow and then it was so deep nothing was moving. If we could get out the door and down the drive we were in school. On time. Regardless.

Man how the world has changed. Poor baby's.

 

[doddg]

My wife teaches the special needs kids, and the vast majority of them have parenting issues. One mother doesn't know what medication her son is taking, how much or when. She never looks in his backpack, and has no idea what he does at school. Dad travels so she is "overwhelmed" and just can't be bothered to deal with school issues. Other kids come to school obviously un-bathed for days on end. There are some that have never been told "NO" at home and assume school works the same way. A lot of these kids are transient and don't live anywhere for much longer than a couple of months.

It really sucks, because we do have an autistic kid and know that putting in the time and effort, as a parent, can yield huge results for your kids. It just blows my mind that there are parents who couldn't care any less about their children's education. After talking with them I've come to understand that they really don't value their own education, and are just fine with their children walking the same path they did.

I have a grandson who is autistic: very lacking in social skills and doesn't want to communicate.
My daughter (39 yrs. old below Nashville, TN in Franklin) and has sacrificed moving 3 times now to get in, then stay in the best school districts (when he went from elementary to middle school, then high school b/c of superior (and expensive) public schools.
TN does not have property tax, but they get you with Sales Tax (preferable better in my mind).

He is the smartest person in the room, especially in math (and wins awards), and plays on neighborhood soccer teams.
Much progress.
He will isolate himself in his room playing games and we will not see him when we visit hardly.
His default zone of comfortability.
His perfect job would be a researcher in the basement of a company.

 

[ATOMonkey]

It was no different when I was a kid (oh so long ago) as my parents would never ever ever miss a days work unless God himself made them take us to the Dr or dentist. Even then my jaw had to be seriously swollen with an abscess to get that done despite Gods intervention. We walked to school. But heck, what was a delay. What was a snow day. I can remember maybe 2 or 3 times the world came to a halt due to snow and then it was so deep nothing was moving. If we could get out the door and down the drive we were in school. On time. Regardless.

Man how the world has changed. Poor baby's.

The walk was uphill 5 miles too, wasn't it?

 

[churchmouse]

The walk was uphill 5 miles too, wasn't it?

When I was package deep in snow it was. Down pour rain. Freezing cold. Yup, we walked. And home or lunch. No way my parents were paying for lunch and yes we had to pay for it. Lunch money man. We did not have the weather gear these kids today have. We buy the G-daughters winter coats every year. It is something we enjoy doing. Gloves hats and snow pants as well. Man I would have killed to have gear like that.....

Seriously, I cook breakfast for the terrorists (see avatar) every morning and drop them at school. They are right next door so a big part of our lives. I see how this works. There are still a few kids that walk but the drop off line is silly long and the buses roll in.

It is what the times call for. Everything changes. But in this we are raising some seriously dependent kids.

 

[jamil]

The traditional model doesn't necessarily have to continue to be the default though. A lot of people work from home. No need for "daycare" for a growing number of families. I don't think traditional schools will be eliminated either, as a market choice. But if it were strictly a market choice, eventually I think as society evolves around technology, they would be replaced as the primary model for school. I'm not saying they could or should be replace altogether.

Online is more cost efficient, and provides a comparable education experience, if not better, than most traditional schools. One problem with it, it requires the student to have more focused discipline to make it work, at least for the school my son attended. We had to keep on him to keep up with the work, because there isn't a teacher in the room with him making him do the work. If you're familiar with Blackboard, the system this school used was very similar. You get your instruction, and assignments from there, you work at your own pace, you get individualized instruction from the teacher if you need it, you submit your assignments, the teacher grades it. There's a place to have classroom discussions through chat. But if you don't do the work, you fail. So that model isn't going to work for a lot of students who don't have parents that can really get involved with their kid's learning.

But other models will work. Some have online remote classrooms, where attendance is taken and progress is monitored, either through video, or chatrooms. That's closer to the traditional classroom, but students are in virtual classrooms. That's probably a better model.

 

[ATOMonkey]

 

[ATOMonkey]

 

[HoughMade]

View attachment 81103

You can sell or rent the property to pay the taxes. That regular income is used is strictly a voluntary choice.

 

[historian]

I think you'll need to read this. https://smile.amazon.com/Washington...1_1?keywords=0801849500&qid=1572550150&sr=8-1

 

[DoggyDaddy]

The walk was uphill 5 miles too, wasn't it?

Both ways!