They finally got Trump’s Taxes

[printcraft]

All anyone should care about Trump's taxes is whether he followed the law.

If he did, then I wouldn't want a president who voluntarily overpays. That person is an idiot.

If people don't like how much he paid, that ball is in Congress' court.

I have a sneaking suspicion that over the course of his life, he's paid more than pretty much everyone complaining.

The idea is to pay $0.00 ADDITIONAL at the end of the year.

 

[Ingomike]

I think we shouldn't ask candidates for their tax records. Rather, a better way than mob-shaming candidates into divulging tax records, I'd like to see independent tax auditors go over their taxes and report the findings. The tax returns only become important when someone wealthy is running. I mean, no one gave a flying **** about Obama's taxes. All it did was let Republicans gloat because Obama didn't give much at all to charity. It's used to dig up dirt, which I don't find of much value. With independent auditors we find out what is really important. Did they do anything untoward? I don't care if Obama didn't give money to charity. He probably gave plenty of he... nevermind.

Their taxes are of no business of the public. At the level of Trump taxes any assessment by independent auditors would be that auditors opinion as there is nothing crystal clear about it. I would expect that most years the final tax settlement for Trump would be an agreement between the tax lawyers and the government auditors.

 

[Doug]

I knew a person who worked for IRS.
That person explained that the tax code is so complex that a tax court judge is the only person who can state what the code really says and that it applies only to the case in front of him at that moment.
NOBODY knows what the law is until the judge pronounces it. It is not possible to completely follow the law.

 

[Alamo]

All anyone should care about Trump's taxes is whether he followed the law.

Yup. This is about trying to generate envy and ill will among the unrich. same as the previous coup attempts - no actual illegalities by Trump, shady and illegal actions by his antagonists, create hooks in the MSM for “Orange man bad.”

 

[bwframe]

Looks like another good time to think hard about the Fair Tax...?

Tax is paid at time of purchase. Or you don't purchase...

Everyone pays...

IRS, be gone...

What's not to like?

 

[Ingomike]

Anybody that claims more than the standard deduction will probably run afoul of some tax law from time to time. Have you read these tax laws? Nobody has...

I have a few businesses, but one of them is an independent insurance agency. I'm required to pay myself a "reasonable salary." No definition of what reasonable is. Not the mean or the average, just reasonable. My accountant says "reasonable" is determined by the IRS when they're auditing your books...

There are 7.7 million words of tax regulations plus 60,000 pages of relevant case law.

When you create all these excess laws, you make everyone a law breaker. Harvard estimates that the average American professional commits about 3 felonies a day.

The Swamp can use their own system for their benefit OR to try to take down their enemies...

.

Bingo! There is no exact for business taxes, they will let you know when they audit you.

 

[JettaKnight]

I knew a person who worked for IRS.
That person explained that the tax code is so complex that a tax court judge is the only person who can state what the code really says and that it applies only to the case in front of him at that moment.
NOBODY knows what the law is until the judge pronounces it. It is not possible to completely follow the law.

Maybe that guy just didn't understand it himself.


I know several current and former IRS employees - all are confident in their understanding of the code they deal with.



Nevertheless, your point is not lost - it's a Byzantine mess.

Trump had the opportunity to simplify the personal income tax code, but instead he merely eliminated the 1040EZ, shrunk the main page of the 1040, and added six new schedules.

 

[JettaKnight]

Looks like another good time to think hard about the Fair Tax...?

Everyone pays...

IRS, be gone...

What's not to like?

Well, I wouldn't get the thrill of filling out a plethora of 1040's each year.

 

[jamil]

All anyone should care about Trump's taxes is whether he followed the law.

If he did, then I wouldn't want a president who voluntarily overpays. That person is an idiot.

If people don't like how much he paid, that ball is in Congress' court.

I have a sneaking suspicion that over the course of his life, he's paid more than pretty much everyone complaining.

But wait! Where's your morality. INGO has told me that it's better to have a president who pays his fair share, just like the rest of the plebs.

 

[Leadeye]

How do you still get millions of dollars in loans from banks, but tell the irs youre broke?

Government has been doing it for years.

 

[KLB]

You're right, Bug. From another thread:

I'm not calling Trump a cheat, but I'm also not going to say, "if he cheats, who cares?"



And is anyone really going to be surprised if the IRS slaps his hand? Even the biggest Trump supporter has got to expect some shady deductions when you're dealing with that much lucre; kinda par for the course.


Then again, I guess I really am saying, "if he cheats, who cares?" 'cause it's an absolute that I'm not voting for Biden.

Just more rich politician shenanigans.

How would Trump even be a tax cheat? It isn't like he is filling out all of that himself. The accountants actually preparing the documents might, but I would be kind of surprised at a reputable accounting firm knowingly falsifying someone's return statements. I could see them maybe taking some liberties, but not full on fraud. Even more so since it was probably a really good chance these returns would be scrutinized so closely.

 

[Dirtebiker]

Looks like another good time to think hard about the Fair Tax...?

Tax is paid at time of purchase. Or you don't purchase...

Everyone pays...

IRS, be gone...

What's not to like?

i haven’t read the fair tax but if it’s just a national sales tax, I’m all for it. Everybody pays the same rate, nothing could be more fair.
If we all paid taxes, some of us could pay less!

 

[jamil]

Nope. Not that.

 

[HoughMade]

But wait! Where's your morality. INGO has told me that it's better to have a president who pays his fair share, just like the rest of the plebs.

Anyone who claims they knowingly pay more taxes than they could (legally) is lying.

 

[foszoe]

All anyone should care about Trump's taxes is whether he followed the law.

If he did, then I wouldn't want a president who voluntarily overpays. That person is an idiot.

If people don't like how much he paid, that ball is in Congress' court.

I have a sneaking suspicion that over the course of his life, he's paid more than pretty much everyone complaining.

I am almost with you. I would care if he's lied about anything concerning his taxes to the American people.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I am almost with you. I would care if he's lied about anything concerning his taxes to the American people.

I would care about someone leaking PII to the press. That someone needs to go to prison. If I were Trump, I would instruct the DOJ to make it a priority to find out who did it and bring them, and anyone else that was complicit to justice ASAP.

 

[HoughMade]

I am almost with you. I would care if he's lied about anything concerning his taxes to the American people.

So what has he said to the American people regarding his taxes?

 

[jamil]

So what has he said to the American people regarding his taxes?

I dunno. They’re magnificent?

 

[Libertarian01]

If I ever won a huge lottery it would be my goal to pay about what Trump has, legally. The first year I'd get hit with the AMT (Alternative Minimum Tax.) No way around that. However, after the first year I'd hopefully have an entourage of good financial advisors doing with my money what is in my best interests.

This would probably follow the line of:

#1) Form my own Family Foundation or Purpose Trust
#2) Under that form a private trust company (with my family and ME being the advisory board)
#3) Form my own bank
#4) Form a couple of offshore trusts to cover my operating assets, personal assets, and investments

There would be a great deal of detail work from there but you get the idea.

As much as humanly possible would be off-shored and relieved of review, as much as the LAW would allow. The private, offshore trusts (probably Cook Island) would then be operating with as little review as possible.

Trump also took advantage of a federal law that allowed him to carry over real estate losses to every succeeding tax year. This means that when he lost about a billion dollars in real estate value a bit more than a decade ago he was legally allowed ot write that off. It doesn't mean a darn thing as to his business acumen, other than he hired really good financial people to cover his own butt. It's not whether or not you lose money but HOW you count the money that's lost. There are a couple of ways I believe to depreciate equipment. So depending upon your situation you depreciate quickly or slowly.

There's a huge difference between tax evasion (illegal) and minimizing your tax liability (legal.) One common way for ultra rich to evade taxes (illegal) is through the art world. This is massive. For example, say one of my Cook Island Trusts buys a well know Picasso from Christie's Auction House for $100 million. No one knows who now owns it as the Trust is private and the controller of the trust is not released. And of course Christie's doesn't release to anyone who the purchaser was. In about 10 years time Picasso is really hot and the "Trust" sells the painting for $150 million. This is a net profit of $50 million, or a capital gain. Who pays taxes on it? No one. Who reports it? No one. Legally it isn't even mine as the trust I set up is separate from me. Even though I "influence" it from behind the scenes it isn't considered mine. This is mostly illegal but it happens all the time. Of course, this sort of transaction would never, ever show up on an IRS form anywhere.

I use the above example only to illustrate how whatever is on his IRS form is probably all legal and simply using the tax law as it is written to minimize his tax liability. He isn't alone in this. My CPA friend made a comment some years ago that folks who make over $100 million simply don't pay taxes, they are able to use extreme measures to avoid and evade. Look at Elon Musk and Tesla. $38 billion in assets, still losing money. So Tesla probably hasn't paid much in taxes, yet. Is Elon Musk an idiot? Not in my book.

The NYT article is naive and simplistic. I am not saying Trump is smart, but what he paid in taxes is not an indicator one way or the other.

Regards,

Doug

 

[foszoe]

I would care about someone leaking PII to the press. That someone needs to go to prison. If I were Trump, I would instruct the DOJ to make it a priority to find out who did it and bring them, and anyone else that was complicit to justice ASAP.

Would you care if Trump lied?