Marion GM plant to see $500M upgrade to help make electric vehicles

[Leadeye]

I've noted that Japan is staying with hybrid vehicles rather than jumping feet first into electric only. It's going to be interesting in 10 years to see who made the best decision.

 

[Ingomike]

Tesla's investments in solar and storage (powerwalls) help integrate their entire market as well, and eliminate a lot of the 'the grids isn't ready' concerns.

This does not eliminate any ”the grids isn't ready“ concern's. The grid here just barely made it through this summer as there is no margin built in any longer. Then add that few new power plants are not being built but there are plans to shut down plants and we are well on our way to grid failures.

Midwest folks are ignoring what is going on in other areas of the country and living with normalcy bias thinking it can never happen here. Those I talk to in transmission hope that when the spectacular meltdown occurs in other areas we can try to fix things before it gets too bad here.

 

[zer0day]

EV is replacing ICE and theres no stopping it. More states will adopt the ICE ban like Cali did. The issues as stated above will be materials. Lithium, nickel, platinum, copper, etc. The perceived chip shortage will turn into the materials race. More companies like Piedmont and Lithium Americas will steal more land, cough, i mean will buy more land to mine the finite supply we have on the planet. By that time as prices soar, i see a "discovery" of a compound from either the moon or Mars that will be hyper-conductive and highly efficient and will be very costly to procure. With those costs passed to the consumer,
Theories aside, EV is the new wave. Automation will continue. Labor will be required to build the machines that will build the machines. And soon will be diverted to 3D printing of many parts. Even less labor needed. So the money these companies are getting for the EV race is for them, not so much for the employees.

 

[Ingomike]

EV is replacing ICE and theres no stopping it.

ONLY because the government is decreeing it, not because it is winning in the market…

 

[wtburnette]

EV is replacing ICE and theres no stopping it. More states will adopt the ICE ban like Cali did. The issues as stated above will be materials. Lithium, nickel, platinum, copper, etc. The perceived chip shortage will turn into the materials race. More companies like Piedmont and Lithium Americas will steal more land, cough, i mean will buy more land to mine the finite supply we have on the planet. By that time as prices soar, i see a "discovery" of a compound from either the moon or Mars that will be hyper-conductive and highly efficient and will be very costly to procure. With those costs passed to the consumer,
Theories aside, EV is the new wave. Automation will continue. Labor will be required to build the machines that will build the machines. And soon will be diverted to 3D printing of many parts. Even less labor needed. So the money these companies are getting for the EV race is for them, not so much for the employees.

Whether it makes sense or whether our infrastructure can handle it, or not.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Duke has called a PowerShare Economic event for today and tomorrow. They are requesting participants to curtail their electrical usage.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

7 States Back Hydrogen as Clean Energy Source

The Midwest wants to accelerate the development of hydrogen as a clean-energy alternative for automobiles and factories.

www.ien.com

 

[Leadeye]

7 States Back Hydrogen as Clean Energy Source

The Midwest wants to accelerate the development of hydrogen as a clean-energy alternative for automobiles and factories.

www.ien.com

When somebody comes up with a can that will hold compressed hydrogen I'll consider this. It's even a trick for NASA.

At the end of the day I see what's left of the American auto industry reduced to the foreign ownership after the government finally gets through destroying it.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

When somebody comes up with a can that will hold compressed hydrogen I'll consider this. It's even a trick for NASA.

At the end of the day I see what's left of the American auto industry reduced to the foreign ownership after the government finally gets through destroying it.

One of, if not the hardest to swallow, of the hard-to-swallow pills that if we're going to have cheap energy, "fossil" fuels are the only tickets in town. All of these pie-in-the-sky fuel sources can only be foisted on us if they can continue to make us believe their use can only result in "climate change". Eliminating cheap energy is a key for destroying our economic freedom. (And filling the bank accounts).

 

[zer0day]

ONLY because the government is decreeing it, not because it is winning in the market…

True. It's not winning the market. And the process to make, charge and use an EV is creating a far bigger impact on the environment than ICE vehicles.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

This does not eliminate any ”the grids isn't ready“ concern's. The grid here just barely made it through this summer as there is no margin built in any longer.

And PowerWalls address that by providing individual storage pools that can be drained during peak demand hours and refilled during off hours or from non-grid sources, which lowers that required margin. Drawing down storage to reduce production demands during peak times isn't remotely controversial in any arena, let alone electricity.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

7 States Back Hydrogen as Clean Energy Source

The Midwest wants to accelerate the development of hydrogen as a clean-energy alternative for automobiles and factories.

www.ien.com

Hydrogen isn't and never will be marketable in the US without some major disruptive technlogical breakthrough that completely changes it's current generation, storage, and expenditures. It makes sense in some nations, but not here. Hydrogen is just a different type of battery, it cannot generate energy on it's own, and it's a useless step in nations with access to both fossil fuel and limited nuclear/hydro sources of electricity.

 

[Creedmoor]

Hydrogen isn't and never will be marketable in the US without some major disruptive technlogical breakthrough that completely changes it's current generation, storage, and expenditures. It makes sense in some nations, but not here. Hydrogen is just a different type of battery, it cannot generate energy on it's own, and it's a useless step in nations with access to both fossil fuel and limited nuclear/hydro sources of electricity.

There sure are lots of Hydrogen Forktrucks working everyday in Americas Distribution Centers, warehouses, factorys and stores.
And the numbers are growing each year.

 

[wtburnette]

Fossil fuels are the only energy source that makes sense until and unless we move to nuclear. Nothing else comes close to being as "green" or future proof as an energy source.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

There sure are lots of Hydrogen Forktrucks working everyday in Americas Distribution Centers, warehouses, factorys and stores.
And the numbers are growing each year.

A zero emission vehicle that can refueled very quickly is probably very attractive in a warehouse environment, and that attraction is sufficient to overcome higher operating costs. That niche use does not negate the wider transportation market has soundly rejected hydrogen, even when incentivized to adopt it. It is simply not cost efficient nor does it offer anything environmentally that other options do not do better.

 

[Creedmoor]

A zero emission vehicle that can refueled very quickly is probably very attractive in a warehouse environment, and that attraction is sufficient to overcome higher operating costs. That niche use does not negate the wider transportation market has soundly rejected hydrogen, even when incentivized to adopt it. It is simply not cost efficient nor does it offer anything environmentally that other options do not do better.

I would be more apt to say that the petroleum and maybe the power generation industry are the ones against Hydrogen.
With what those at two Walmart Distribution Centers tell me the initially the cost is higher but the operating costs are about 10% less along with zero emissions and the endless hassle of monster battery charging systems and the accompanying issues of lead acid batterys or propane combustion engines.
Ever seen a 130 battery charging and changing station?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I would be more apt to say that the petroleum and maybe the power generation industry are the ones against Hydrogen.
With what those at two Walmart Distribution Centers tell me the initially the cost is higher but the operating costs are about 10% less along with zero emissions and the endless hassle of monster battery charging systems and the accompanying issues of lead acid batterys or propane combustion engines.
Ever seen a 130 battery charging and changing station?

Power generation industry has every reason to be for hydrogen. How do you think it's made? As mentioned, hydrogen cannot create energy. It is just a different type of battery, a way to store and carry energy. As such, it requires more energy to make then it gives, and consumes a lot of electricity in the process. Petroleum? Natural gas certainly has every reason to be for hydrogen, given the amounts used in creating hydrogen fuel. The issue is hydrogen is simply too expensive to compete due to the inefficiency of pouring in more energy than you get out, from generation of the original power to the tire turning on the road, a battery powered vehicle achieves roughly 75% efficiency. Hydrogen achives closer to 25%. The fuel costs are roughly 3.5-4x more for hydrogen. It's why, despite subsidies from both gov't and manufacturers, hydrogen has not caught on in passenger vehicles. Add in that while there's zero emissions at the source, the vehicle, but the process of turning natural gas into hydrogen fuel creates substantial pollution, and is less efficient then simply making electricity to begin with.

So while not arguing against your niche use case, that is not translating into the automotive industry despite decades of attempts to make it work that have been backed by various levels of gov't and various manufacturers. It's just to inefficient to scale without a major technological breakthrough, and is a needless step between traditional ICE and EVs for countries with significant petroleum reserves. It makes more sense for a country with very limited petroleum reserves and lots of electricity, say from nuclear or hydro sources, and a small footprint for infrastructure build out. Japan is a more likely market than the US, but I expect they'll find it a dead end as well, despite Toyota being a major pusher of the tech.

 

[tmschuller]

The hole where the press was .. the guys working are tethered to the roof beams via fall protection. That hole is getting steel put in then concrete.
walls are going up .. plastic going up to keep dust and dirt down.
2 more presses with demo started this week. My work area had to be moved and they are 1 week ahead of schedule!

 

[tmschuller]

Update on an old thread: it took 28 semis to bring this crane in.
They’re building the new roof first over the football field size hole they cut in the floor where the new presses are going.

 

[Leo]

Jim Farley is also bankrupting FOMOCO with this EV day dream. The Company that is bankrupting what is left of Chrysler is both feet in on the EV fantasy. Who is going to buy all these electric cars? They make no environmental sense, they make no economic sense and there is a narrow limit to their practical sense. The car lots are full of electric vehicles they cannot sell, as are the holding yards at the distribution points.

What productive American can pay a mortgage sized payment on a 100 mile dog leash car, even if today's crippled power grid could support them?

The people that bought them for novelty, or those who have a very specific use for them already have them, thanks to massive subsidy burdened by the taxpayers that need conventional transportation to be productive.