-1 Noblesville Officer Noname

[drillsgt]

Though I generally CC, I will defend you're right to OC just as I always wear a helmet on my motorcycle, I will defend your legal right (in IN) not to wear one.

I am nearly always supportive of LEO but this guy behaved like a douche.

He never provided proof of being a LEO - badge or ID.

Make an appointment to talk to the Chief in person. When you leave the call back number, let the operator know that someone is impersonating a police office in Noblesville - detaining citizens. You've got a picture. You "wanted to let them know first so they can address it before you contact the television stations."

I would strongly urge you to assume the position that this was someone impersonating an officer until proven different.

Wait for the... "No. No... he's one of ours" from the Chief.


EDIT TO ADD: While the fake-cop is in the mood for a lecture, you might want to suggest he select the DIET Coke from the soda bar when he waddles up there.

Sounds like it was just a case of a cop power tripping and trying to impress those in the restaurant with his authority but he didn't expect a guy to actually stand up for himself.

 

[paddling_man]

Sounds like it was just a case of a cop power tripping and trying to impress those in the restaurant with his authority but he didn't expect a guy to actually stand up for himself.

 

[churchmouse]

Thank you, sir. When the zombies come, you're always welcome at the Paddling_man bunker.

Ditto.....................

I am familiar with the group W bench of which you speak.................

 

[jdmack79]

Ah but we are only getting one side of the story. And no doubt a slanted story. I am willing to bet good money the op came off as hostile, defiant and arrogant with the how dare you question me and my ltch attitude. I wasn't there but it takes two to tangle. Makes more sense to me.

I would expect that he was fairly defiant considering that the supposed police officer was detaining him. I wasn't there, but if he did have a "how dare you question me" he was correct. How dare an officer question someone more than they should. How dare the officer ask for an ID after he was already proven to be lawfully carrying his gun. How dare he lecture the OP about how to carry a gun just because he disagreed with the method. How dare he interrupt a regular guys day just to harass him.

It doesn't take two to tangle, it only takes one cop who is abusing his authority.

 

[Hammerhead]

Everyone is going to sue everyone. Gosh I have heard you will hear from my lawyer so many times I lost count. Then as they are getting booked into the jail they can be seen burning up those yellowpages looking for a lawyer...any lawyer that will answer the phone that is.

Infraction or ordinance violation? What are you talking about?

IC 34-28-5-3.5
Refusal to identify self
Sec. 3.5. A person who knowingly or intentionally refuses to provide either the person's:
(1) name, address, and date of birth; or
(2) driver's license, if in the person's possession;
to a law enforcement officer who has stopped the person for an infraction or ordinance violation commits a Class C misdemeanor.

A citizen must only provide ID if stopped for an infraction or ordinance violation. Otherwise, tough luck.

Also, if you're going to violate my rights say, for example, arresting me after I've provided my valid LTCH (and after you've verified it as such) because I wouldn't provide my ID (or verbally ID myself) then you will be hearing from my lawyer, as will your supervisor, your chief, your mayor, your city council, and several media outlets. I don't have to flip through the yellowpages.

I also hope to jeebus that you're playing the cynical devil's advocate here and not being either intentionally (or unintentionally) dense or truly ignorant of the rights citizens have and laws we're protected by.

 

[DC47374]

Ah but we are only getting one side of the story. And no doubt a slanted story. I am willing to bet good money the op came off as hostile, defiant and aragant with the how dare you question me and my ltch attitude. I wasnt there but it takes two to tangle. Makes more sense to me.

It seems as if you've forgotten that people are innocent until proven guilty. Once the LTCH was presented to the officer he should have been on his merry way. Why do you feel it necessary to back a fellow officer, when he has broken this very simple rule? In your position you should be reaching out and trying to educate the man.

 

[Echelon]

I can only speak for IMPD...NO. There is no report completed by the officer. If he/she was marked out on a run then there will be a permanent run history attached to the officer and the address they were marked out on. Any person ran will be in that history and that CAD (computer aided dispatch) can be printed out like a report.

We don't do a report either, also when you run someone in IDACS with say just a DL, dispatch will return back and advise if the person has a valid handgun permit. I get this everyday on traffic stops, I run your DLN and when I get the return dispatch will advise if you have a valid permit on file before I walk back up to the car.....

Thanks guys, this has actually been a concern of mine since I began carrying. I work in a line of business that requires VERY detailed background checks, very detailed, and I know with 100% certainty they look into every police contact and the details surrounding. Based on this, I've always avoided OC (though I did it for the first time last week!) simply because I refuse to risk my job over some over-zealous cop.

 

[MikeDVB]

Ah but we are only getting one side of the story. And no doubt a slanted story. I am willing to bet good money the op came off as hostile, defiant and aragant with the how dare you question me and my ltch attitude. I wasnt there but it takes two to tangle. Makes more sense to me.

If it was a consentual encounter and the OP wasn't detained, the officer could have walked way from the interaction at any point.

If you walk up to me and start hassling me, I'll ignore you. If you're a cop but won't show me credentials, I will ignore you (although I might record you).

At the end of the day nothing says you, as an officer, have the right to a day where I am not an arsehole, defiant, arrogant, or anything else. You approached me, and not the other way around. You chose to experience the pleasure that is speaking with me - not the other way around.

 

[IndyBeerman]

Personally my response to the officer would have been this...

No badge, no ID, and you have a polo that could have been bought @ the Goodwill store, either present proper ID or have a uniformed officer called in, this conversation is over until one of the two is presented to me, you have a nice day.

 

[KW730]

You will almost NEVER see off-duty OCing. There will be a few of course but they are not the norm. When we qualify with out off-duty pistols they are drawn from a CC position. OCing when not in court is generally looked down on. My previous LEO dept even went so far as to say that off-duty OC required a badge on the belt next to it plainly visible. Many young officers who grew up in the urban areas have never seen a non-LEO OCing before. In my 16yrs as an LEO in Indy I could count on 1 hand how many people I have noticed OCing. It's rare.

Not to discount your thoughts at all, I just want to add that I know of at least one ICO that open carries off-duty. He does carry his badge on his belt right next to his holster, for what it's worth.

 

[Somemedic]

Please, do tell. What exactly are we allowed to post about on this website (in your excellent opinion)?

I don't care if OP posts his account but if he decided to pursue this issue legally anything listed here has the potential to become evidence. I would hope he would pursue the issue to the highest levels and want the odds in his favor. Encountering LE like the gent in his story should be addressed and dealt with, not just talked about on a bulletin board in cyberspace.

 

[STEEL CORE]

What Agency are you with? The second ammendment..............then simply say here is my ID, my LTCH, and have a nice day Officer Friendly, thank you for your concern.

 

[88GT]

I don't care if OP posts his account but if he decided to pursue this issue legally anything listed here has the potential to become evidence. I would hope he would pursue the issue to the highest levels and want the odds in his favor. Encountering LE like the gent in his story should be addressed and dealt with, not just talked about on a bulletin board in cyberspace.

Evidently you DO care. What else are we supposed to make of your "don't post" post. I didn't realize we were limited to one telling of the story anyway. That will seriously curtail my post count.

Why do you ASSume he is sharing it with just us? I never make a big production of writing my reps. I never add "done" or "just emailed mine" in threads urging us to contact them. Does that somehow translate into not doing it?

 

[92ThoStro]

Yes, I was not cooperating, and he said I was being a smart ass to him. Why would I not be?
He appears to be off-duty ( but did have a police radio? so maybe not), not in uniform, and I had already given him my LTCH, which I did so freely, and right away as the wallet was already in my hand because I had just paid and filled up my drink.
I did not even hassle him about stopping me while I was just there to get my stuff and go. I did not raise my voice ( he did ), I did not swear at him ( he did ), I did not lecture him about anything ( which he sure did quite a bit to me ). I could have lectured him about how he was wrong to say I am required to provide picture ID. I could have lectured him about stopping people just because they are OCing, and he didn't even get called out there, he was there with a drink in his hand ( you see it in the picture ).
He approached ME, I didn't even know he was a cop, I thought he was just another customer until he asked what agency I was with.

I did ask about being detained, and if I was free to go.
I did ask him what crime I was being suspected of committing
I did refuse to ID myself with a DL or picture ID
I did flat out tell him that I don't believe him when he said he has "MANY" times interacted with people OCing who are impersonating an officer. And that there are "MANY" people who OC in a duty holster that turn out to be criminals. I told him I don't believe so, and not many criminals are going to OC like this.

I dress nicer when carrying because I thought that if I dressed sloppy while carrying, then there is a greater chance I would have to interact with an LEO who got a MWAG call. I guess there is no right way to dress.

Dress sloppy and you are a criminal
Dress nice and you are impersonating an officer
I would dress in jeans, a flannel shirt, and wear my leather boots I use around the farm, but then I would be accused of being a cowboy!

 

[CathyInBlue]

The IC used to read something like in possesion of license but was changed to is licensed but there has been no case law on the new wording of the IC.
I'm too lazy to look it up right now.

IC 35-47-2-1:
Prior to July 1, 2011:

Sec. 1. (a) Except as provided in subsection (b) and section 2 of this chapter, a person shall not carry a handgun in any vehicle or on or about the person's body except in the person's dwelling, on the person's property or fixed place of business, without a license issued under this chapter being in the person's possession.

Subsequent to July 1, 2011:

Sec. 1. (a) Except as provided in subsections (b) and (c) and section 2 of this chapter, a person shall not carry a handgun in any vehicle or on or about the person's body without being licensed under this chapter to carry a handgun.

Defendant. They need to prove their case to make me a defendant and make it stick enough to present to the DA no?

IC 35-47-2-24(b) Whenever a person who has been arrested or charged with a violation of section 1 of this chapter presents a valid license to the prosecuting attorney or establishes that he is exempt under section 2 of this chapter, any prosecution for a violation of section 1 of this chapter shall be dismissed immediately, and all records of an arrest or proceedings following arrest shall be destroyed immediately.

The requirement to destroy all records of the arrest don't kick in in the field with the arresting officer. You can't, necessarily hold out until you're ALMOST fully arrested and then whip out the LPPS and force the LEO to shred all of his paperwork right there. you will be arrested. You will be booked. You will spend the night in jail. You will see the judge for your arraignment. Only at your first court date, in front of the judge and the prosecuting attorney can you then whip out the LPPS and inform them that Ofc. Friendly overstepped his bounds and wasted all of your times.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

You could identify yourself with a SUSPENDED DL.

I was in McDonald's not Subway, was that wouldn't fly

I just realized you jerks were talking about me.

Jerks.

 

[Mark 1911]

I've never had this happen to me yet but apparently it is quite common - unfortunately.

Write to his supervisor. It's the only way. Just may get the word out to the rest of the LEOs in the department.

 

[CathyInBlue]

Basically cops just hate to be told "no".

You have NO idea.

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

I just realized you jerks were talking about me.

Jerks.

I was wondering when you'd show up. Where you been?

 

[CathyInBlue]

IC 9-30-2-2
Uniform and badge; marked police vehicle
Sec. 2. A law enforcement officer may not arrest or issue a traffic information and summons to a person for a violation of an Indiana law regulating the use and operation of a motor vehicle on an Indiana highway or an ordinance of a city or town regulating the use and operation of a motor vehicle on an Indiana highway unless at the time of the arrest the officer is:
(1) wearing a distinctive uniform and a badge of authority; or
(2) operating a motor vehicle that is clearly marked as a police vehicle;
that will clearly show the officer or the officer's vehicle to casual observations to be an officer or a police vehicle. This section does not apply to an officer making an arrest when there is a uniformed officer present at the time of the arrest.
As added by P.L.2-1991, SEC.18.

The above refers only to motor vehicle infractions and ordinance violations, being as it is under Title 9 of the IC, but is there a similar section regarding misdemeanors elsewhere in the code?