1911 carry Cocked, and not locked?

[churchmouse]

I will ad this as someone that has seen a lot of training issues with agencies. Mechanically it shouldn't damage anything That said just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. You shouldn't run around without a 1911 thumb safety engaged. Even if you have one with a series 80 firing oin block

Yes some designs have a hammer with only a grip safetyy option (D&W M&P Shield EZ come to mind) they were designed for that and they have a hinged trigger.

So it really isn't a good idea. In a real defensive encounter the minuscule time youd safe isn't going to make or break you in a fight. Its not a speed draw like the movies.

At the end of the day one can do whatever they want just make sure your career and check book can handle.

Good luck

OK. Why.
seriously Why.
your logic is not clear here.

 

[DocIndy]

Isn't this on par with the 1911 question of "Do you carry your 1911 with the chamber empty or a round chambered?"

 

[ditcherman]

I've personally been training cocked and locked, and I've gotten use to getting the thumb safety off as I draw it up to shoot. Right now it's a mental step and not naturally done yet. I don't have that many reps to commit it to muscle memory yet.

I did also try it cocked and unlocked and it was much faster that's why I brought up this question. I definitely need more training with the safety on to get it to were it's not thought of but just part of the draw to take it off.

I have one 1911 and it's a beautiful awesome gun, a Sig commander size. As I was moving along my conceal carry journey, it fit in the mix as a larger gun, and then I got comfortable with it, then I had a desire for more capacity. All that to say I haven't really trained with it as I've moved along. It now feels like a small gun.

One thing I have trained with is a FN FNX 45 Tac. If you're not familiar, its a 17 round capacity .45 with a hammer, safety, and decocker, no grip safety. You can legitimacy carry it cocked and locked or hammer down safety off as a double action. Guessing 5lb and 12+lb trigger, respectively. This is an interesting gun to experiment with. In a battle belt scenario with rifle slung at a Larry Vickers class I was tending to actually draw it and take first shot as a double action, decocking it before reholstering. This is probably because the safety is so mushy to operate, not crisp like a 1911. My times were probably similar between the two, but DA felt better as we were close enough my trigger yank didn't affect accuracy horribly.
Larry was very clear to point out to me that I was either going to carry it cocked and locked or DA, not cocked and unlocked, and I can't imagine he would have allowed a cocked and unlocked 1911.
He also asked me "what in the *** **** **** did the gun store salesman have to say to get you to buy that?!?" I proudly responded, "nothing, I went looking for it!" I think he judged me.

I agree with others, click that safety off. That hammer is at least 100% ready to go off, the trigger does nothing to pull the hammer back.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I think you’re on to something, IIRC the striker in a striker fired pistol isn’t sitting there ready to go forward, you finish pulling it back with the trigger pull.

This varies. Glock is partially tensioned, hence why they were able to market it as 'double action' to hesitant police departments in the early days. The trigger pull does finish cocking the striker and then releases it. Other striker fired guns are fully tensioned. IIRC, the VP9 and P320 are both fully tensioned.

 

[Mongo59]

Hey, we are the top of the food chain! Go ahead and flaunt that opposing thumb and use the safety! If a Marine can do it anyone should be able to figure it out...

 

[2tonic]

I don't know anyone who wipes off the thumb safety before they are clear of leather, nor anyone who waits until they are firmly reholstered before activating it, and for the most patently obvious reasons.
But that's exactly what you're doing utilizing only the grip safety.

The grip safety is there to prevent a ready-to-fire pistol (off safe) from firing if it falls from your hand. Any time you take a shooting grip on a 1911 you defeat this safety.
This practice of not using the thumb safety is beyond stupid, it's insane, and irresponsible, as well.
Oh well, it's your leg (hopefully) or arm, if you wear a shoulder rig, that will suffer the consequences of such a practice.
Just know you're outside my circle of trust.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

There is a grip safety that will not allow the hammer to fall while in the holster. So why carry it with the thumb safety on?

Because during the "danger periods" you will have the grip safety deactivated. When you are holstering, it is deactivated. When you establish your grip to start the draw it is now deactivated. When you have it in your hand and are nervous with adrenaline coursing through your body and are trying to sort out a shoot/no-shoot it is deactivated.

You now have a very light trigger with very little movement required to discharge it.

How zero defect are you?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I did also try it cocked and unlocked and it was much faster that's why I brought up this question. I definitely need more training with the safety on to get it to were it's not thought of but just part of the draw to take it off.

Which is why a 1911 is not a casual weapon. It takes a lot of reps to get to the point you subconsciously work the thumb safety correctly. A not zero number of people who have thought they have mastered it didn't and couldn't get the thumb safety off when the chips were down. Many people will train in a static situation under no time pressure and think they have it. They don't.

Can you do it 100% of the time standing under no time pressure?
Can you do it 100% of the time knocked on your ass and winded under severe time pressure?
Can you do it 100% of the time entangled?
Can you do it 100% of the time entangled and injured?

It's one of those things that will probably never bite you in the ass because you'll never be tested. But if you are tested and you fail, bad day.

 

[Expat]

Okay, this video has some bad language in it, so for the big wussies that love to report posts with bad language, do not watch this video.

I bet this guy wishes he had his safety on until the gun was pointed forward.

 

[Cameramonkey]

And maybe an obvious point, or maybe not one you have considered. Yes, there is a grip safety. But it is fully exposed to the world at all times. It takes nothing to deactivate it.

 

[DadSmith]

Which is why a 1911 is not a casual weapon. It takes a lot of reps to get to the point you subconsciously work the thumb safety correctly. A not zero number of people who have thought they have mastered it didn't and couldn't get the thumb safety off when the chips were down. Many people will train in a static situation under no time pressure and think they have it. They don't.

Can you do it 100% of the time standing under no time pressure?
Can you do it 100% of the time knocked on your ass and winded under severe time pressure?
Can you do it 100% of the time entangled?
Can you do it 100% of the time entangled and injured?

It's one of those things that will probably never bite you in the ass because you'll never be tested. But if you are tested and you fail, bad day.

I need to have someone time me. It may just be a mental thought that I'm slower. Without knowing my exact time from draw to firing I'll never know.

Definitely need to work more on my draw with the 1911. I'll get there eventually. If I can learn how to shoot a Glock the 1911 should be pretty easy

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I need to have someone time me. It may just be a mental thought that I'm slower. Without knowing my exact time from draw to firing I'll never know.

Definitely need to work more on my draw with the 1911. I'll get there eventually. If I can learn how to shoot a Glock the 1911 should be pretty easy

You can time yourself with a par timer app on your cell phone. Set a par time, if you break the shot before that time you at least know you're faster than that. Else you'll need a shot timer. That's not the same as real time pressure, though.

The 1911 is easier to learn to be accurate with but the Glock is easier to learn to fight with.

 

[warren5421]

Who designed the Colt 1903 Hammerless, it only has a grip safety and a slide lock only. The 1900 Colt, AUTOMATIC COLT, CALIBRE 38 RIMLESS SMOKELESS, only had a Sight Safety. The Army wanted the safety added to the 1900 Colt and 1902 Military Model something Browning did on the the 1911 design to sell it not because he thought it was needed. The half cock natch was the design to keep hammer from hitting the firing pin if an accident caused the hammer to come off cock.

Some interesting info: https://unblinkingeye.com/Guns/1902ACP/1902acp.html

 

[Denny347]

Thumb safety. So you can re-holster under stress while not putting a bullet in your leg.

 

[Born2vette]

Which is why a 1911 is not a casual weapon. It takes a lot of reps to get to the point you subconsciously work the thumb safety correctly. A not zero number of people who have thought they have mastered it didn't and couldn't get the thumb safety off when the chips were down. Many people will train in a static situation under no time pressure and think they have it. They don't.

Can you do it 100% of the time standing under no time pressure?
Can you do it 100% of the time knocked on your ass and winded under severe time pressure?
Can you do it 100% of the time entangled?
Can you do it 100% of the time entangled and injured?

It's one of those things that will probably never bite you in the ass because you'll never be tested. But if you are tested and you fail, bad day.

Why I carry a decocker CZ decocked with a round in the chamber. No trigger work done on either my bedside CZ 75 SP01 or my 75D PCR. I want that first shot heavy DA in a high adrenalin situation. When i complete shooting I alway decock as I go to low ready and assess before I consider reholstering.

 

[Tombs]

All the backstrap does, in most 1911s, is block the thin sheet metal trigger bow from traveling rearwards.

The safety physically locks the sear. It is fairly easy for the hammer to jump off the sear if everything is not working just perfectly. In theory the half-cock notch would catch it, but you shouldn't rely on that.

The sole exception I can think of is kimber's backstrap system which blocks the firing pin. I can't really wrap my head around a circumstance where the safety would make the firearm safer, if we're subscribing to modern firearms handling and safety practices. Now if you have some sub 5lb worked over trigger.... Yeah no.

 

[ditcherman]

I need to have someone time me. It may just be a mental thought that I'm slower. Without knowing my exact time from draw to firing I'll never know.

Definitely need to work more on my draw with the 1911. I'll get there eventually. If I can learn how to shoot a Glock the 1911 should be pretty easy

A shot timer is a lot of fun, and has really helped my shooting. Easily worth the $50.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

Shirt tails are way dangerous. Thumb safety!

 

[DadSmith]

Good information gained from this thread. I appreciate the responses.

 

[Steel and wood]

I always have my safety on when I draw it my thumb rides the safety it just feels right and gives the thumbs forward a better feel.