1911 carry Cocked, and not locked?

[BIGE7.62]

^^^^^^^^This^^^^^^^
Period.
that safety is no hindrance if you cycle the gun enough to make using it 2nd nature muscle memory

I haven't carried a 1911 in 10 plus years and I still thumb sweep my G19 slide !

 

[88E30M50]

Practice flipping the safety off on the drawstroke enough and it a very natural action that takes no extra time. It took years for me to get to that point. Once at that point, keep practicing.

Even with all of that, I'm more comfortable with a da/sa now days. A P229 is what I trust myself with now

 

[DadSmith]

I always have my safety on when I draw it my thumb rides the safety it just feels right and gives the thumbs forward a better feel.

That's what I've come to at this point. As I draw and bring it up my thumb rides the safety down and it goes into position right before my left hand grabs ahold.


I do flip the safety on before reholstering or anytime I'm not shooting.

This thread was more of a why can't you run without the thumb safety.
My Shield 45 doesn't have a safety at all that I can see unless it's something on the trigger. I was wondering how not having the thumb safety on the 1911's would matter since most plastic guns don't really seem to have them at all. Which got addressed in above posts.

 

[NHT3]

This will be interesting; I’m gonna throw out that the fact that the trigger on a 1911 is nicer, lighter, and crisper, that the safety is needed. The safety provides lockup of the slide, sear, and hammer.
Carrying with safety off would be the equivalent of carrying a g***k with a 3 lb trigger. Maybe it’d be even more appropriate to say it’d be the equivalent of carrying a Sig P320 (no trigger safety) with a 3 lb trigger.

I can't speak about all striker fired pistols but a G++++ is equally safe with a 3 pound trigger or an 8 pound trigger. There are 3 passive safeties that keep the striker mechanically blocked until the trigger is depressed. Safety with a 1911 or any other pistol depends on what is happening between your ears and there's no replacement for training.
As BBIs said a 1911 is mechanically safe without the thumb safety engaged if you NEVER make a mistake.

 

[russc2542]

Some striker fired guns act as a 1.5 action by only partially cocking the striker (sometimes marketed as DA but it is not), many are just a simple single action. Some hammer fired guns do the same (TCP). The longer trigger pull of a striker gun is usually to deactivate the trigger, drop, firing pin, etc safeties.

Deactivating an ergonomic* safety does not add any time to the draw time because you do it while doing the rest of your draw without any finger/thumb repositioning. It's a matter of practice training... I don't mean that like oh you have to train around an issue, I mean like just training to do it right and it's there.

I do know a guy with a gimpy right thumb that can't take a grip with his thumb over the safety... so he doesn't shoot 1911s and generally avoids safety-equipped guns.

*To me, an ergonomic safety means my thumb comfortably rests on it in the firing position with a shooting grip.... you know, like a 1911. Unergonomic safeties are slide mounted, flush mounted, too stiff, poorly positioned forward/rear, or work backwards (IE up to fire, down to safe like the ruger SR22)

 

[mark40sw]

 

[Trapper Jim]

Man….this thread scares the heck out of me.

 

[Johwar]

I was wondering why the thumb safety needs to be on to carry a 1911?.

There is a grip safety that will not allow the hammer to fall while in the holster. So why carry it with the thumb safety on?

Most firearms have nothing but a trigger safety now days, and with proper finger placement drawning the 1911 and firing it should be no different.

So why use the thumb safety at all?

Now remember I'm a 1911 noob so educate me.

I sold my Glock 43X because no manual safety (please no rants about how safe a glock is). Replaced it with a 1911 that I carry cocked and locked. I will never be expert enough to feel comfortable enough to do otherwise.

 

[DadSmith]

So JMB original design did not have a thumb safety or a grip safety. Then later added a grip safety. He must have thought that was good enough until the Army said we need a thumb safety as well.

So we find his original design and several other until the 1911 hand no safety to just a grip safety. So JMB felt they did not need a safety then added a grip safety and then to sell to the Army he added the thumb safety.

 

[Trapper Jim]

So in the evolution of design, products (cars, lawnmowers, guns, etc) were all invented and manufactured without the safety measures we have today. So in looking out for stupid, safeties are reactionary. If there is a way to hurt yourself, or worse, others, leave it to the masses to find it and then blame somebody else.

 

[Mongo59]

Uncle Sam told me it was safe to carry a 1911a1 locked and loaded and even offered to pick up the medical expenses if it wasn't...

 

[Trapper Jim]

I don't know anyone who wipes off the thumb safety before they are clear of leather, nor anyone who waits until they are firmly reholstered before activating it, and for the most patently obvious reasons.
But that's exactly what you're doing utilizing only the grip safety.

The grip safety is there to prevent a ready-to-fire pistol (off safe) from firing if it falls from your hand. Any time you take a shooting grip on a 1911 you defeat this safety.
This practice of not using the thumb safety is beyond stupid, it's insane, and irresponsible, as well.
Oh well, it's your leg (hopefully) or arm, if you wear a shoulder rig, that will suffer the consequences of such a practice.
Just know you're outside my circle of trust.

I have seen many cocked and unlocked pistols holstered in training and competition. As a matter of fact IDPA has no specific penalty for it. It’s a DQ for USPSA if caught and enforced. The most common miss use of this comes from shooters playing with all platforms from day to day and beginners. Back in the day of SW 59’s and other decockers, after shooting, many would drop the hammer with the decocker, holster and then flip up the safety for a double action first shot.

 

[Bluedragon]

To me it seems a little fubar to want to carry a 1911 loaded with the thumb safety deactivated.

 

[thompal]

There's no need for all that. It can be carried cocked and unlocked.

The trigger still has to be pulled in order to fire the gun, and it has to be held in a firing grip in order to pull the trigger. In the holster, the grip safety blocks the trigger.

The problem with this thinking in that if you carry it unlocked, you WILL be depressing the grip safety when you are holstering, and catching the trigger on ANYTHING will result in Bad Things happening.

If you practice with a 1911, it is second-nature to sweep the safety off as you come on target, and thumb it back on as you come off target. Claiming that people would forget to sweep it off is just as silly as saying that those same people would forget to pull the trigger.

 

[ditcherman]

The problem with this thinking in that if you carry it unlocked, you WILL be depressing the grip safety when you are holstering, and catching the trigger on ANYTHING will result in Bad Things happening.

If you practice with a 1911, it is second-nature to sweep the safety off as you come on target, and thumb it back on as you come off target. Claiming that people would forget to sweep it off is just as silly as saying that those same people would forget to pull the trigger.

That was absolutely not my opinion, which I pointed out in red ink. That was an Internet quote, just to show there are some crazies out there.
Cocked and locked for me.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

So JMB original design did not have a thumb safety or a grip safety. Then later added a grip safety. He must have thought that was good enough until the Army said we need a thumb safety as well.

So we find his original design and several other until the 1911 hand no safety to just a grip safety. So JMB felt they did not need a safety then added a grip safety and then to sell to the Army he added the thumb safety.

Think about the context of the day. "Gun safety" was about hammer control, not trigger control. The Colt SAA and equivalents were the working gun of the day. They were not carried cocked. You cocked when you were read to fire. I'd bet my shiniest dime that the original manual of arms envisioned for the 1911 was the same. Carried uncocked, and probably on an empty chamber. Then the question of what do you do with a gun that's fired and is now cocked and hot and you're bouncing on horseback came into question. We'd rather not blow a hole in our mount, fix that.

Prototypes and testing are a thing for a reason. Real world use often dictates the original design was sub-par. I doubt many people are going to advocate going back to revolvers that have to be carried over an empty chamber to be drop safe...

 

[Mongo59]

All those long nights on guard duty mine was locked and cocked which was SOP. Wartime might be different but I doubt anyone would be checking.

But back then we weren't carrying them as just part of the uniform, they weren't to show but to use according to the ROE...

 

[ECS686]

All those long nights on guard duty mine was locked and cocked which was SOP. Wartime might be different but I doubt anyone would be checking.

But back then we weren't carrying them as just part of the uniform, they weren't to show but to use according to the ROE...

Sort of related. When I was in the USAF we transitioned from the Model 15 38 to the M9. We always carried the M9 loaded with one in the chamber on fire (with the hammer de cocked of course) The first trigger pull was just like our Model 15s.

Now aircrew issued M9s were loaded mag with empty chamber. As they had time to chambet a round when safety on the ground And if it was a situation where they ejected that was the least of their worries right then. AND as safe as the Beretta, Glock etc is these days we have all seen funny stuff happen with guns and brute force is applied. Triggers get manipluated, etc. So to minimize it made sense with Aircrew

 

[Mongo59]

That all sounds too complicated for a Marine...

 

[tbhausen]

Why I carry a decocker CZ decocked with a round in the chamber. No trigger work done on either my bedside CZ 75 SP01 or my 75D PCR. I want that first shot heavy DA in a high adrenalin situation. When i complete shooting I alway decock as I go to low ready and assess before I consider reholstering.

Spot on how I feel. I’ve never really “warmed up” to any carry piece other than a DA/SA with a decocker.