1911 Lovers

[Robjps]

Complains about reliability of M16 picks 1911 as sidearm brilliant!

 

[joshualee49]

Complains about reliability of M16 picks 1911 as sidearm brilliant!

Wait.....what?

 

[bwframe]

It is a version of this
Colt Rail Gun®

$1875 a pistol.

I was gonna ask what GH2 thought of the rail and lanyard loop? Also wonder why a combat gun would have that snag-proof rear sight that makes it more difficult to work the slide one handed?

 

[netsecurity]

So they buy their 6lb combat rifles, which they use 99.9% if the time from Colt for around $600 each, and now a $1,500 backup weapon from Colt that weighs 3lbs, and holds only 8 cartridges? It may be the "best" pistol, but all they need is something that goes bang every time they pull the trigger, and something lighter and smaller would be better IMO. It makes no sense whatsoever to pay almost 3x as much for a pistol that you never use, than your main battle weapon.

 

[bwframe]

...It may be the "best" pistol, but all they need is something that goes bang every time they pull the trigger, and something lighter and smaller would be better IMO. It makes no sense whatsoever to pay almost 3x as much for a pistol that you never use, than your main battle weapon.

They've already been there, done that. Now they are back to what works.

 

[TopDog]

I love the idea of this, specially buying American. But why not use M&P or something? They could get those for probably $300 each on contact, and instead they went with the most expensive pistol practically in existence.

Because they want a battle tested proven platform.

God Bless The Marine Corps.

I hated the 9mm, I was active duty when it was adopted. It was easy to shoot, but that was its only advantage.

Before you yahoos start with that BS 9mm vs .45acp crap remember we are talking bullets the military is forced to use. We are talking FMJ ball ammo. Yes modern 9mm is just wonderful, that is true but when you compare .45 ball to 9mm ball, then the old adage still proves true, Big Bores Bust Better.

The Marine Corps makes another good decision.

 

[Robjps]

Wait.....what?

Seems pretty clear to me. Stock 1911's are not nearly as reliable as modern stock pistols. The random pushes to replace the m16 with something more reliable makes this laughable to me because its usually the same people that that want 1911's want rid of the m16.

I'm not saying that 1911's are junk or M16's are jesus on a stick. But the reliability aspect a glock/sig/hk/fn is going to me more reliable then a 1911. And the gap is a lot bigger then m16 vs Scar/hk416/ACR.

The cost,weight, magazine capacity really makes me wonder WTF.

 

[netsecurity]

They've already been there, done that. Now they are back to what works.

How often does a Marine actually fire his service pistol in action though? Primarily only if his main weapon fails, or he is disarmed in hand to hand combat, would the pistol be drawn, right? How can they justify paying three times as much for these as any other pistol, and twice as much as their M4, for something they pretty much almost never use? Something just doesn't (literally) add up, especially during a recession when we are all taking haircuts, and while the government is already in debt to its ears. Someone should be fired for this IMO, unless they got Colt to agree to $500 per gun, which I doubt is anywhere near the final price.

 

[Robjps]

So they bought 10,000 pistols for 22.5 million which breaks down to $2250 per pistol. Imagine how many upgrades you could give each soldier with $1750-1450 you could have saved going with Hk/sig/glock/SW/FN.

 

[netsecurity]

So they bought 10,000 pistols for 22.5 million which breaks down to $2250 per pistol. Imagine how many upgrades you could give each soldier with $1750-1450 you could have saved going with Hk/sig/glock/SW/FN.

I'm sure the price includes 5 years of parts and service , but c'mon. THAT IS THREE TIMES WHAT THEY PAY FOR A COLT M4!!!

 

[Coach]

Take some folks off welfare, cut the pay of Congress or the President and let the Marines have the pistol they want. The platform works and history proves that. It is an obvious choice.

 

[joshualee49]

Seems pretty clear to me. Stock 1911's are not nearly as reliable as modern stock pistols. The random pushes to replace the m16 with something more reliable makes this laughable to me because its usually the same people that that want 1911's want rid of the m16.

I'm not saying that 1911's are junk or M16's are jesus on a stick. But the reliability aspect a glock/sig/hk/fn is going to me more reliable then a 1911. And the gap is a lot bigger then m16 vs Scar/hk416/ACR.

The cost,weight, magazine capacity really makes me wonder WTF.

I was confused because you purpled an otherwise serious sounding statement. (Holy alliteration, Batman!)

There are some very reliable modern handgun designs out there - that's given. What is not given is that any of them would be more reliable than a 1911. Sure, you are going to pay more for a 1911. You have to keep them clean and lubed. However, you end up with a proven design that is accurate and extremely reliable.

I'm not being myopic. I love XD's, Sig's, etc. All things being equal I just don't see any other design beating out the 1911 in critical categories, with the exception of capacity. Just my

 

[cbseniour]

The know what they like and like what they know.

 

[Rob377]

Take some folks off welfare, cut the pay of Congress or the President and let the Marines have the pistol they want. The platform works and history proves that. It is an obvious choice.

Marines don't know what they want/need. They need to be told what works by the keyboard commandos populating the interweb.

 

[riverman67]

I would like to have one if I could get the rail deleted. I hate the look of a rail on a 1911. It's like the old joke about the elevator in an outhouse,it just don't belong.

 

[riverman67]

Take some folks off welfare, cut the pay of Congress or the President and let the Marines have the pistol they want. The platform works and history proves that. It is an obvious choice.

 

[JetGirl]

Marines don't know what they want/need. They need to be told what works by the keyboard commandos populating the interweb.

First time I meet a Marine like that ^, I'll eat a booger!!

They've already been there, done that. Now they are back to what works.

</Thread>

 

[jakemartens]

Test Article Photos of MARSOC Winning Colt Rail Guns - Soldier Systems

Got to wonder what other guns it beat out and why?

I am a huge fan of 1911's, I am not a polymer gun hater, some I like some I don't.
At $1875 per pistol that is a lot of money.
The FBI SWAT HRT went with a custom built Springfield, those guns went to shooters. The marines are only ordering 12k of these, there are over 200,000 thousand marines. These guns are going to shooters

 

[jakemartens]

So a little more research on this (since I am at work and have the time)

it is for 4000 guns that wil be bought 3 times as the guns wear out

The Marine Corps has tapped Colt Defense LLC to make more than 10,000 new Close Quarter Battle Pistols for the service's elite special operations troops.
The July 19 contract, which has a total value of $22.5 million, brings an end to the Corps' exhaustive search for the top .45 caliber, 1911-style pistol to replace the fleet of worn-out Marine Corps Forces Special Operations Command, or MARSOC, M45 pistols.

http://oas.monster.com/RealMedia/ad...00x100.gif/3047516f4b552f384535304142422f41?x

Colt Defense, based in Hartford, Conn., was the original maker of John Browning's revered 1911 design – a potent handgun that served all branches of the U.S. Military for more than 70 years until it was replaced by the M9 9mm pistol in 1985.
Marine officials, however, say they didn't play favorites.
"It was performance based. . . . We picked the best-performing pistol," said Charles Clark III, who oversees infantry weapons requirements at the Corps' Combat Development and Integration office in Quantico, Va. "There were three candidates that made the final round of consideration," but Clark would not discuss the competitors.
In addition to Colt, Springfield Armory's Full Size MC Operator and Smith & Wesson's 1911 design were also contenders, sources tell Military.com.
Marine testers placed a high priority on accuracy. The winner had to be capable of putting five-shot groups on target that "didn't exceed four inches by four inches at 25 yards" from an unsupported firing position, Clark said. Reliability and magazine life were other important factors in the decision.
The new Close Quarter Battle Pistols will be very similar to the M45s they are replacing this fall. They will have a rail for mounting lights, a custom trigger, a manual safety, improved ergonomics and glowing Tritium sights for low-light conditions.

http://oas.monster.com/RealMedia/ad...60x600.gif/3047516f4b552f384535304142422f41?x

The most visual difference is the Colt models will come in Coyote tan instead of gunmetal, Clark said.
The Corps began issuing custom 1911 .45 pistols to its elite Force Reconnaissance units in the 1990s. Gunsmiths at the Quantico Weapons Training Battalion Precision Weapons Section hand built them from old 1911s that had been replaced by the M9 in the mid 1980s.
The creation of the first MARSOC units in 2006 caused the requirement to grow from 400 pistols to 4,000 pistols. Finding enough surplus 1911s for the Precision Weapons Section's custom rebuilds became impractical.
"We realized that hand building 4,000 guns was not sustainable," Clark said.
Marine officials would not discuss the individual price for each new pistol. But the $22.5 million contract to Colt will allow the Corps to buy replacements for the new pistols as they wear out, Clark said. The contract also includes some money for spare parts.
"The contract is built so we can re-buy the approved acquisitions objective three times, so we can buy 4,000 guns three times," Clark said. "These pistols will be getting used a lot; deployed a lot so the guns are going to get shot out."

MARSOC operators stay on a rigorous deployment cycle, "so they fire a lot of rounds. It's a 15,000-round plus [training] work-up to a deployment," Clark said.
"It's more efficient to replace the guns over time instead of attempting to completely rebuild them."

 

[TopDog]

Test Article Photos of MARSOC Winning Colt Rail Guns - Soldier Systems

Got to wonder what other guns it beat out and why?

I am a huge fan of 1911's, I am not a polymer gun hater, some I like some I don't.
At $1875 per pistol that is a lot of money.
The FBI SWAT HRT went with a custom built Springfield, those guns went to shooters. The marines are only ordering 12k of these, there are over 200,000 thousand marines. These guns are going to shooters

Those frame cracks in the link are reminiscent of the ones the Beretta's had when first issued. The unit I was with had to inspect every M9 and I dont remember how many were sent back states side but some were sent back.
What is it with manufacturers supply government issue? Are they trying to cut cost during manufacture and thus increase profits even more?