22 Rifle Long Range -- 2019

[sht4brnz]

I don't recall anyone having a clean run last year or the year before, correct me if I'm wrong as I was not able to attend every event.
Yes, there are individuals that attend that have a shooting resume that would suggest they would be in a separate class.
Yes, there are rifles that individuals have tricked out with a lot of money that would suggest that they would be in a separate class.
However, what I have witnessed is that a first timer with a $300 outfit can compete with the most seasoned vet with the most expensive outfit.
If it becomes necessary for class definition, I'd suggest start by recording and alloting individuals based on score %, i.e.: unclassified (1-4 appearances) , novice (everyone else), expert (90% or higher hit ratio).
If there is further need for more breakdown, then apply a factory / modified / you spent more than you should have category.
If there are complaints that "dude shoots better because his equipment is better" I'm certain any of the guys that fall into the better equipment catagory will allow the other individual the use of his gear. Yes, that is how nice this crowd is.

For anyone interested in trying this, do not hesitate. These are some of the nicest people around. This is not an intense battle for the win. You will occasionally see frustration, because a clean string of fire is so attainable, yet is so illusive.
This is an excellent environment to get your feet wet in an informal competition setting and learning what your 22 is capable of.
This is also a great stepping stone for anyone interested in getting into f-class.

Thank You Rich for putting this together for us. This is some of the most fun I've had shooting. I look forward to attending more this year.

 

[bwframe]

...Thank You Rich for putting this together for us. This is some of the most fun I've had shooting. I look forward to attending more this year.

This.

 

[rhino]

Just to clarify, I was not looking to rile anybody with my question. I've been supporting this match with my attendance, when I can, since the first year they started holding it. It has never needed equipment classes, however due to overwhelming success, the match organizer is rolling out some new information and asking for questions. It does not matter to me personally whether Rich starts an unlimited class or not. He's the one putting in the work, which I have lauded extensively in these pages. It just might be helpful for people to know some objective specifics beforehand.

For one example, does changing from a 4x to an 8x scope on a squirrel rifle bump someone into the higher class? I ask this question, because there are rimfire silhouette matches currently operating in central IN which do exactly that (and some of them have a tiny fraction of the participation this one does, sometimes being cancelled for lack of interest). The magnification actually needed to successfully shoot the match is not relevant to this question.

Rich has mentioned here a few times that people are spending money and "gearing up" for these matches, due to the positive enthusiasm they are generating. That is a good thing. It does not matter to me - I'm showing up with a factory-stock CZ455 and $150 scope regardless. But I remember what it was like to be a newbie. People have posted repeatedly (including Rhino, if I recall) asking what kind of equipment is needed to shoot these things. Some objectivity in the rules might help people in the cold weather months to plan their purchase decisions for the warmer ones (if that makes sense).

If it does not matter to you, that's fine. But some people will want to know. (Most likely when the thread goes up announcing the first match date in the spring).

Thanks again to Rich for continuing to innovate with this!
​

Not that I recall. Maybe some discussion of whether or not 9X was enough magnification?

 

[Twangbanger]

I think you mis-read my response, and if it was me that sounded riled, that's not what I intended. But I am told I am very direct.

What I was saying is that if somebody feels they need to cheat an already-casual set of rules, then I don't care...they can try to beat me with their little sleeper rifle, and I'll know they are cheating, and I won't care, because the match is not going to be won because the rifle is 1/10th MOA more accurate than mine. The targets are pretty big as it regards the accuracy of many of the rifles out there: it sure doesn't need a "custom" to clean it.

I see where you're coming from, but I'ma tell you this: more rules and regs is not a positive as much as you might think. I have 4 disciplines of NRA manuals at home, in multiple year's worth, and a few years of CMP. I grant you, I keep up with the rules in those sports because I elect to try to compete in them of my own accord.

But I have as much fun (or more) at Riley because I can just show up with a gun and some ammo and shoot, and it's tough enough on it's own that I haven't cleaned it yet.

The casual nature of this match is what makes it more fun and relaxed, and a pamphlet of RULES will make it into just what Rich intended to avoid.

If a guy wants to have his shooting game resemble an accounting firm, he should take up NRA Smallbore.

ETA:



No.

The game is not being won by more accurate rifles.

I think you mis-read my response. Although I differ from you in that I've never brought a custom rifle to this match,I'm not asking for an unlimited class. I'm in the group of people who think the match was working well. If there are going to be more rules added, however, then I think they should be objective, not subjective. What you want to avoid is the appearance of someone saying "Umm, your rifle goes...umm...but yours doesn't." Tell people what the rules will be, beforehand, then let them sort it out.
​

Less rules is fine; I'm also ok with more rules, as long as they are objective. It's vague rules you want to avoid.

 

[singlesix]

Still a bad Back and knee class, ie shoot from bench?

 

[Hop]

I'd love to try this. I've got fully stock 22LR rifles up to a 10/22 full of Kidd parts. I'm not used to a bag or bipod though. I'd be happy using just a sling if allowed.

 

[sht4brnz]

Still a bad Back and knee class, ie shoot from bench?

Yep, benches are available.

I'd love to try this. I've got fully stock 22LR rifles up to a 10/22 full of Kidd parts. I'm not used to a bag or bipod though. I'd be happy using just a sling if allowed.

Shooting with a sling is allowed. Bring a backpack to use as a front rest to sample out what you prefer.

Shooting jackets are not allowed.

 

[rhino]

Yep, benches are available.


Shooting with a sling is allowed. Bring a backpack to use as a front rest to sample out what you prefer.

Shooting jackets are not allowed.

I didn't know that!

 

[Litlratt]

My .02

I understand and support different divisions. Determining and applying rules will be difficult. An example would be one of my custom rifles has a stock barrel on it, but shoots very well. What division would it be in?
Different formats is fine as long as shooters know well in advance of what to expect.
I'm guessing that 20 to 25% are shooting from a bench. Either make that a separate division or build a couple of more benches and allow anyone/everyone.
Provide wind flags/ribbons at both ends and the middle of the target bank. Arguing that it is a disadvantage to those that cannot read them is stating the obvious. It should be.

 

[Hawkeye7br]

Yep, benches are available.


Shooting with a sling is allowed. Bring a backpack to use as a front rest to sample out what you prefer.

Shooting jackets are not allowed.

There's been a misunderstanding. Slings are not allowed. If someone wants to make the argument for sling without bipod or bag, it's worthy of discussion.

 

[Hohn]

Wish this was closer to me, I'd love to stretch my 455 a bit and see what I can do.

Not to pile on, but putting tons of rules on the classes and such won't help much. Informal is where it's at. Nate said it well.

And-- being rimfire-- the AMMO will as likely determine the performance at least as much as the rifle itself and both are still less significant than the shooter.

 

[sht4brnz]

My bad.
Thought slings were allowed.

I'd be OK with someone wanting to use a sling, if anyone cares.
If someone prefers sling and is the contingent variable of whether or not they come out and shoot, the more the merrier?
I'd be impressed to see a sling used as a more stable platform over the front rest / bi-pod.

 

[natdscott]

There's been a misunderstanding. Slings are not allowed. If someone wants to make the argument for sling without bipod or bag, it's worthy of discussion.

Well, if it is open for discussion, I would like to shoot with a sling.

Even if it is out of competition, I would prefer to be shooting in jacket & sling, as it would assist in my training for other events. It's not that I don't train at home aplenty, but shooting WITH people is sometimes good, ya know?!

But the two go together like peas and carrots. I can't sling in hard enough to be effective without a coat. Well...I CHOOSE not to. The coat doesn't really provide much support in prone, but it sure does protect my tender little arm.

In that regard:

I'd be impressed to see a sling used as a more stable platform over the front rest / bi-pod.

My hold diameter in sling prone is somewhere in the 0.75 to 0.89 MOA range, judged from other rifle's actual bullet holes.

That's surely not in the range of hold that it presents an insurmountable obstacle for other shooters--particularly those on good bipods--even if I WERE allowed to be in competition. I think my shooting these matches off a ruck is probably a slight disadvantage to a bipod, and certainly it is a factor to be shooting without a rear bag (do NOT change that rule, Rich! It's a good'un.).

So I don't know how much of a disadvantage I'd be signing up for with a sling/coat, but I'd be willing to try.

-Nate

 

[Twangbanger]

Food for thought. How about allowing slings, to attract some Appleseed alums, however in keeping with the field varmint concept, make everyone change distances every shot, and do not relax the time limit? In other words, don't forbid it, but don't allow them to get into their NPOA and stay in it for a full string (like we did in some shoots?).

Let shooters sort it out & see what works. Just offered for discussion.

 

[Hop]

I'm flexible. Whatever the organizers want to do is fine. I can adapt. I shoot NRA smallbore in a tshirt with a military web sling. It's all fun to me.

 

[bwframe]

Food for thought. How about allowing slings, to attract some Appleseed alums, however in keeping with the field varmint concept, make everyone change distances every shot, and do not relax the time limit? In other words, don't forbid it, but don't allow them to get into their NPOA and stay in it for a full string (like we did in some shoots?).

Let shooters sort it out & see what works. Just offered for discussion.

Would they really come just because slings were allowed?

 

[natdscott]

Food for thought. How about allowing slings, to attract some Appleseed alums, however in keeping with the field varmint concept, make everyone change distances every shot, and do not relax the time limit? In other words, don't forbid it, but don't allow them to get into their NPOA and stay in it for a full string (like we did in some shoots?).

YesSIR!

That's where I am with the idea. If you can get to where you're making 4 for 5 hits with changes in yardline, and swinging from 75 across to the 100 yard line and back, and adjusting the scope and parallax, and loading singly....

...well, you're no ignoramus.

That strikes me as EXACTLY the kind of thing a Revere or Appleseeder might want to do to expand their skills.

I shoot NRA smallbore in a tshirt with a military web sling. It's all fun to me.

Damn, you're alright. Knew I liked you. Must be the air of crazy you carry around.

But for real: not even a sweatshirt? Ouch.

Would they really come just because slings were allowed?

Yeah, they really might! If you position it like Twangbanger did above, and explain that scopes are probably really needed for VISIBILITY, but that they get to shoot .22 LR to 165+, in a more "practical" or "battlefield" tpye of arrangement, I'd think that could be very appealing to them.

I attended a Revere event this last fall, and I think this sort of thing might be a nice way to ease some of that group into some casual competition. The pressure of competition, albeit mostly artificial and self-induced, does have the ability to QUICKLY condense for a shooter what they do/do not know, and refines what is working, while illustrating what gear/procedures do NOT work.

Casual competition 1/month, a Revere event 1/mo or so, and maybe a few range days on their own per month...

...well shoot. That sounds like planned growth.

-Nate

 

[Twangbanger]

Rifle + all attached accessories less than or = 8 lbs (give or take a few) = sporter...but any smarty-pantses who show up with a jacket...get busted to unlimited......I like it...

 

[Litlratt]

All else being equal, or as close as possible. A sling/jacket shooter is at a disadvantage to a bench/bipod/bag shooter in this match.

 

[Twangbanger]

All else being equal, or as close as possible. A sling/jacket shooter is at a disadvantage to a bench/bipod/bag shooter in this match.

I agree. Even with a jacket, I can't hold my bipod zone.

But I'd still probably try...just for gits and shiggles...