3 year old shot in head in Indy

[billybob44]

pretend you're better and smarter than everybody else.

+1 To this^^!! Not too sure about the troll part?

FWIW: On a positive side, I DID just un-chambered the round on my G-19--Hid up high, but Grand Kids (ages 3+5) in the house+19 NOT on my side==VERY UNUSUAL..Bill.

 

[the1kidd03]

Anyone who trusts a 3 year old enough to lay a loaded weapon on a table and walk away from it is a negligent fool.

These may have been good people...with good intentions. But stop making excuses for them.

This is tragic. But if it happened as reported...it was entirely preventable.

I'm not making excuses for them. Out of respect for the family I'm not going to divulge any detailed information, but I know the circumstances and what happened. Unlike those of you who are naive enough to believe everything the media puts out through their filters of interpretation. This incident could have happened to ANYONE. I've seen every single local report that's been put out yet, and not a SINGLE ONE is completely factual and NOT misleading in their phrasing. Believe what you will. Not everything in life falls in line with everybody's assumptions.

On another note, not EVERY child has the same mental capacity at the same ages. My nephew could recite, knew, and understood the safety rules at the age of 2 and was handling them (unloaded) and in a completely safe manner by 3. More than I can say for a lot of adults. I've come across a LOT of other children who you could say the same about. I started around the age of 4 or 5. My point is, that age means nothing in these contexts.

 

[jbombelli]

Context, Bombelli. Context.

You've proven time and again that you have no need of context.

 

[silentvoice71]

Imho i think most of you need to stfu quit going all james yager. Pray and mourn for these people. I know most of you are beyond that with your pride and being infallable. So ill do one for ya

Suffer the little children to come unto Me, and forbid them not: for of such is the Kingdom of God."

[Mark 10:13]



P.s. the way some of you are acting i am a shamed to call myself a member of ingo

 

[Double T]

Imho i think most of you need to stfu quit going all james yager. Pray and mourn for these people. I know most of you are beyond that with your pride and being infallable. So ill do one for ya

Suffer the little children to come unto Me, and forbid them not: for of such is the Kingdom of God."

[Mark 10:13]



P.s. the way some of you are acting i am a shamed to call myself a member of ingo

Quit quoting a religious text. Quit name calling. And simply log out. No one is keeping you logged in...


That said, both of my children could get a glock trigger to release the sear by age 2 and a half. BOTH of them could drop the hammer on a 1911 then as well. Teaching safety and killing curiosity is tantamount before curiosity gets the best of the kiddos.

Don't point fingers, learn from someone else's mistake.

 

[silentvoice71]

You sir are the reason this thread needs to be gone. And ill quote who or whatever i want mr internet uber awesome tough guy. Ok im done merry christmas have safe holidays folks.

 

[Trooper]

You've proven time and again that you have no need of context.

Do you have issues with EVERYBODY?

I guess that, just as you have issues with everyone in politics, no one is as perfect as you are.

 

[public servant]

I'm not making excuses for them. Out of respect for the family I'm not going to divulge any detailed information, but I know the circumstances and what happened. Unlike those of you who are naive enough to believe everything the media puts out through their filters of interpretation. This incident could have happened to ANYONE. I've seen every single local report that's been put out yet, and not a SINGLE ONE is completely factual and NOT misleading in their phrasing. Believe what you will. Not everything in life falls in line with everybody's assumptions.

The updated reports I've seen state that the child pulled a loaded gun off a counter and it may have fallen and went off striking the child in the head.

Are you saying this is not the case? If it is not then I retract my statements of negligence.

Either way, my sympathy to the family. I pray they have the strength to endure this tragedy.

 

[Trigger Time]

I'm not making excuses for them. Out of respect for the family I'm not going to divulge any detailed information, but I know the circumstances and what happened. Unlike those of you who are naive enough to believe everything the media puts out through their filters of interpretation. This incident could have happened to ANYONE. I've seen every single local report that's been put out yet, and not a SINGLE ONE is completely factual and NOT misleading in their phrasing. Believe what you will. Not everything in life falls in line with everybody's assumptions.

On another note, not EVERY child has the same mental capacity at the same ages. My nephew could recite, knew, and understood the safety rules at the age of 2 and was handling them (unloaded) and in a completely safe manner by 3. More than I can say for a lot of adults. I've come across a LOT of other children who you could say the same about. I started around the age of 4 or 5. My point is, that age means nothing in these contexts.

I didn't read or listen to any news reports on this. All I need to know is that a child should never have unsupervised access to a gun. What epiphany could change that fact? Did an adult drop the firearm and it discharged hitting the child? Still preventable.
I feel very sorry for their loss but this isn't a sympathy card forum for the family, this is a gun forum where we discuss things adult in nature. If people can't handle the way we discuss things then don't read here. Don't quote religion to me either.
Ill stand by what I said, this was preventable. I hope people learn from this families tragic mistake and maybe it will save some children.

 

[Trooper]

So what is the results of this? Send the parents to prison for the rest of their lives? forcibly sterilize them? Then euthanize the remaining child?

 

[Steell]

"Tis better to be silent, and thought a fool, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt." -Author Unknown

Abraham Lincoln

 

[Expat]

Prayers made for all involved. Certainly a terrible thing.

 

[nakinate]

Ibtl?

 

[Libertarian01]

To All,

Should I inflame any negative emotional responses here it is not my intent. My intent is only to help bring some degree of logic and reason into an extremely emotional and disturbing area of thought.

The first point I would like to make is that almost (say, 99.999%) of all accidents are foreseeable. If not by thinking than by the simple fact that someone has probably died doing it before. With this in mind most accidents are preventable. However, we either consciously or unconsciously choose to allow the risk to exist. Everything we do could cause our death. Do we always make certain that the shower floor and tub floor is not slippery? Do we always take the maximum precaution in every event presuming the worst case scenario and thus avoiding a problem? The answer is "Of course not!"

The reasons are many and varied and I am certainly no expert on the matter, but if I were to venture a best guess it would be because of two (2) major factors. The first could well be ignorance. We don't know that a certain action could lead to death. The second is that each one of us has a different risk tolerance level. We each accept different risk levels with events. Who here puts on hearing protection, eye protection and steel toed boots - to mow their lawn? Probably not many and certainly not me. Substitute operating a chainsaw, a weedwhacker, or any outdoor tool. Heck, put digging a hole with a shovel. I am sure some do and good for them but my guess is that the majority of the population does not because it is willing to take the risk. It is acceptable to them.

Just think if this family didn't own firearms at all. Then we are almost 100% guaranteed the child would be alive - or at least wouldn't die in the home of a firearm related accident. There is NO way to be 100% safe all of the time with something that is dangerous! However, most on these boards are willing to mitigate that risk and balance it with the risk of NOT having a firearm when it is needed. A position I agree with. However, we must not stick our heads in the sand and ignore the undeniable fact that if a firearm is not present no accidents can happen that are firearm related. The same goes for knives, chainsaws, heavy objects that could fall from a high shelf - anything.

We live with risk every day. Consider that we could actively save millions of lives if we started testing every human being for every disease starting at the moment of birth, then repeating all tests annually for the remainder of our lives! Fortunately at birth all of the genetic and chromosomal diseases could be ruled out so we would need those again, thank goodness. After that we could catch thousands of diseases in their early stages and save millions of lives over time. It is 100% foreseeable, so why don't we do it? The simple answer is money. We can't afford to do that. We are consciously or subconsciously putting money over life, period! I accept that. Many people could be offended at that.

At some point the probability of risk becomes so high that we do regulate it and criminalize it. There is a risk every time we get in our cars and drive down the road we will be killed. We don't stop driving, we acknowledge and live with the risk. However, we do say that if someone is extremely incoherent due to drug abuse or intoxication or simply tired that we will punish them for the increase in risk that they have brought to the road. I am certain the fine barristers could put the legalize far more eloquently than I am able to do. The point is that an impaired driver increases the risk to such a point that we find that unacceptable and punish it.

When we see or hear of a childs death we are not rational, and that is by design. Our emotions kick and and we feel more than we think. We are designed that way! At the genetic level we are programmed, regulated and driven to feel a certain way so as to protect our children, our progeny. This is natural and normal. However, it does not stop us from thinking and being capable of reason which is where i am hoping to drive this conversation.

We must be willing to accept that we don't get rid of dangerous things from the house just because a child is in the house. We try to reduce that risk by taking a variety of actions. We don't leave the PineSol in the lower cabinet where a child can get in and drink it. We try to limit the childs access to the dangerous stuff. At least hopefully we do. Today would you want to prosecute a mother who mops the floor and leaves the cleaner out around a 3 year old for "just a minute" while she goes in the other room? I believe that a higher percentage of readers of this forum would support such prosecution today than would your grandparents, because YOU are more educated about such risks AND place such risk at a lower level of tolerance.

When I was younger I used to visit my Uncle and ride around with him in the back of the pickup truck. Today, that is a big no-no. Due to my experience with doing it I probably place a lower risk level on such activity than an average younger parent would. That is just human nature.

Is it right to want to punish this family more than their own conscience will? Maybe... Just consider that their tolerance for risk has probably already dropped considerably with firearms and children from where it was one week ago. The cause for that increase in sensitivity is tragic. May fate grant us the wisdom without suffering the experience of similar loss.

Regards,

Doug

 

[Bunnykid68]

Ibtl?

I think you made it in after the lock and re-opening

 

[SkullDaddy.45]

I'll have to respectfully disagree. This was preventable.

Rep gods says I must wait to rep ya! But I believe this was very preventable.

 

[CTS]

There is no "suffered enough" clause in the IPC. If a jury finds that they didn't take reasonable precautions then they should be subject to the penalties associated with the law. They weren't the party injured, the kid was, and he deserves justice.

The kid deserves justice? He is already deceased. He cannot get justice any more.

Too many people want people prosecuted for every bad thing that happens in this world. Some times bad things happen to people. We don't need to put another person in jail every time something does.

Hey, my bad, you're right. If someone is murdered...well they're already dead...so why have a trial? (no I'm not intimating that this kid was murdered)

 

[the1kidd03]

I feel very sorry for their loss but this isn't a sympathy card forum for the family, this is a gun forum where we discuss things adult in nature. If people can't handle the way we discuss things then don't read here. Don't quote religion to me either.
Ill stand by what I said, this was preventable. I hope people learn from this families tragic mistake and maybe it will save some children.

Trust me, sympathy here is not my goal. Emotion is not something I'm known for, I assure you.

However, by suggesting this was preventable you are suggesting that you never have and are incapable of having lapses in judgement. FALSE. Secondly, you are also suggesting that you can predict the future actions of everyone. Again, false.

This situation was at no one's fault. As time progresses, things change. What seems safe and logical now, may not be so in 5 seconds. This situation demonstrates that perfectly.

To demonstrate my point, when you're at home alone is there or has there EVER been a gun of yours laying around which was not CONSTANTLY in your view? I highly doubt it. So, if it's preventable, you are suggesting that you can predict someone will walk in and do something unsafe while you thought you were alone. Again, a false assumption.

Not everything is what it seems.

 

[CTS]

In theory, perhaps. If you have any trust in your family, then I can tell you it was not. Don't believe everything the media is telling you. Regardless, the circumstances that lead to this I seriously doubt anyone here has not done the same thing to some degree. Don't kid yourselves. Nobody is perfect. Accidents DO happen and it's not ALWAYS negligent.

There is no such thing as a trustworthy 3 year old when it comes to firearms. They cannot be sufficiently taught by that age to be safe.

 

[the1kidd03]

There is no such thing as a trustworthy 3 year old when it comes to firearms. They cannot be sufficiently taught by that age to be safe.

False. I've done it/seen it/experienced it.....more than once.

Children are no different than adults in their psychological capabilities at different ages. Are SOME? Yes. ALL? No.

So at what arbitrary age would you suggest a child is trustworthy to handle and keep firearms safely?at different ages. Are SOME? Yes. ALL? No.