.50-90 Sharps

[JohnKDM]

I rolled a few with my 45-90, seemed more trouble that it was worth it for my rifles.
In BPCR I have the three Browning rifles.
40-65 45-70 and 45-90 Creedmoor, I swapped out the factory sights for LR MVA Buffalo's.
Fun fun stuff to shoot.
If I had a vintage Sharps or a Rolling Block I definitely would spend time with paper patching.

Paper patching is fiddly, no doubt. As you mentioned, the old guns with Henry style rifling or the shallow Sharps style may benefit from using the paper patch as that was what they were designed around. One other advantage is that at higher velocities the paper jacket allows a softer alloy to be used for hunting - at least that is the concept I am investigating.

 

[natdscott]

Of my shoulder most likely...

Why would you think that?

If .50-90, it's the cartridge version of very common muzzleloader loads. Should be somewhere along the lines of the hotter 12 ga 2 3/4 slugs, but nowhere near 3" mags, much less 3 1/2" turkey or coyote loads.

It's not going to beat you to death, just stand and shoot the thing (literally, "like a man": lean into it a little), and don't expect to have 50 round range sessions.

 

[Thor]

Why would you think that?

If .50-90, it's the cartridge version of very common muzzleloader loads. Should be somewhere along the lines of the hotter 12 ga 2 3/4 slugs, but nowhere near 3" mags, much less 3 1/2" turkey or coyote loads.

It's not going to beat you to death, just stand and shoot the thing (literally, "like a man": lean into it a little), and don't expect to have 50 round range sessions.

Let me go all Fog Horn Leg Horn of loonie toons fame here...

IT'S A JOKE SON, A JOKE, YOU UNDERSTAND JOKES DON'T YA?

I'm sure it won't buck much more (if any) than my 1895CB shooting CorBon 460gr +P 45-70 loads. I love me some recoil.



Happy New Year everyone! And Glad Yule.

 

[Thor]

So I did a cerrasafe chamber mold (okay, I did it 3 times since it was my first time).

Chamber is 2.553" The rim is .65" deep. Throat is .55" dia and the base is .58" dia with a straight case. The bullet is .51" dia.

I'm leaning towards .50-90 Sharps but am open to suggestions.

Maybe 2 5/8ths" .500 BPE?

 

[JohnKDM]

So I did a cerrasafe chamber mold (okay, I did it 3 times since it was my first time).

Chamber is 2.553" The rim is .65" deep. Throat is .55" dia and the base is .58" dia with a straight case. The bullet is .51" dia.

I'm leaning towards .50-90 Sharps but am open to suggestions.

Maybe 2 5/8ths" .500 BPE?

Assuming the rim depth is a typo and should be .065", that is a bit deeper than mine (.047"). Not unusual. If using modern brass with thinner rims, there are ways of making the headspace work.

If the chambering is original, it is likely one of the many 500bpe iterations. My rifle measures 2 & 7/8" with the 3" being a common length. Have never found a 2 & 7/8" 500bpe listing, but it is certainly original, which speaks to how much variation there was - if you requested it, the gunsmiths would build it. Back then, a lot of gunsmiths made their own reamers, so even there, variation is expected.

Here is a pic of my chamber cast; if you look close you can see the ball-type throat and the start of the Henry rifling. Most of these old express rifles had what would be considered a short throat by today's standards. Designed around black powder and paper patched bullets.

Have you found any brass yet?

 

[Thor]

Assuming the rim depth is a typo and should be .065", that is a bit deeper than mine (.047"). Not unusual. If using modern brass with thinner rims, there are ways of making the headspace work.

If the chambering is original, it is likely one of the many 500bpe iterations. My rifle measures 2 & 7/8" with the 3" being a common length. Have never found a 2 & 7/8" 500bpe listing, but it is certainly original, which speaks to how much variation there was - if you requested it, the gunsmiths would build it. Back then, a lot of gunsmiths made their own reamers, so even there, variation is expected.

Here is a pic of my chamber cast; if you look close you can see the ball-type throat and the start of the Henry rifling. Most of these old express rifles had what would be considered a short throat by today's standards. Designed around black powder and paper patched bullets.

Have you found any brass yet?

Thanks for the input....yes .065 is probably correct as I am new to my caliper as I am to my chamber casting.

I am still considering brass as I am uncertain what to acquire and don't just want to buy random stuff; LOL.

 

[Mongo59]

Paper patching is fiddly, no doubt. As you mentioned, the old guns with Henry style rifling or the shallow Sharps style may benefit from using the paper patch as that was what they were designed around. One other advantage is that at higher velocities the paper jacket allows a softer alloy to be used for hunting - at least that is the concept I am investigating.

I paper patch some. I have to for my .45-70 steeple rounds for long range. Bought two sets of dies for .45-70 and the works all for a handful of times I will use it, but I'd rather have it and not use it that need it and not have it...

 

[JohnKDM]

I paper patch some. I have to for my .45-70 steeple rounds for long range. Bought two sets of dies for .45-70 and the works all for a handful of times I will use it, but I'd rather have it and not use it that need it and not have it...

Steeple rounds - what are those?

Over time, accumulating dies and other tooling usually saves you anguish at some point! All that stuff accommodates lots of variations...

 

[JohnKDM]

Thanks for the input....yes .065 is probably correct as I am new to my caliper as I am to my chamber casting.

I am still considering brass as I am uncertain what to acquire and don't just want to buy random stuff; LOL.

How about I cut down a few of my 500bpe cases and send to you to try? I make them from nitro express brass.

 

[Thor]

How about I cut down a few of my 500bpe cases and send to you to try? I make them from nitro express brass.

You are the man! I will send you a private message.

 

[Max Volume]

So, has anybody got an update on brass or ammo?

I was at the Crown Point gun show this past weekend and seen 50-90 Sharps reman ammo. I don't remember the
cost but they seemed reasonable and I buy oddball ammo from them sometimes. Just picked up 30-40 Krag
from them. I do not know if they ship but this is who has it.

Precision Cartridge INC
940 Georgiana St.
Hobart, IN 46342
Phone: 219-942-2400
Fax: 219-947-3405

 

[Max Volume]

Precision Cartridge, Inc. - Ammunition in 380, 9mm, 38, 357 Mag., 357 Sig., 10mm, 40 S&W, 41, 44, 45.

Precision reloaded ammunition for Law Enforcement, Sportsman, and all shooting sports! The Midwest's Leading Supplier of Quality Ammunition! Now available Frangible lead free bullets that are 100% safe when hitting anything as hard, or harder than the bullet.

www.precisioncartridge.com

 

[Thor]

Precision Cartridge, Inc. - Ammunition in 380, 9mm, 38, 357 Mag., 357 Sig., 10mm, 40 S&W, 41, 44, 45.

Precision reloaded ammunition for Law Enforcement, Sportsman, and all shooting sports! The Midwest's Leading Supplier of Quality Ammunition! Now available Frangible lead free bullets that are 100% safe when hitting anything as hard, or harder than the bullet.

www.precisioncartridge.com

I have some of their ammo...minimum order of 1000 rounds though. I think I will try to find the right load before I buy in at that level. Thanks for the input though. If I find them at a gun show willing to sell a few boxes I may be interested.

 

[Thor]

Many, many thanks to JohnKDM who sent me some .500bpe cases to try out. He shacked the case length


and they landed on the extractors perfectly...but the breach would not close

as Max Smart would say, "missed it by that much".



When I get time I need to do a little more cogitating to see what is amiss.

Cheers

Thor

 

[JohnKDM]

Many, many thanks to JohnKDM who sent me some .500bpe cases to try out. He shacked the case length

View attachment 327801
and they landed on the extractors perfectly...but the breach would not close

as Max Smart would say, "missed it by that much".

View attachment 327803
View attachment 327805
When I get time I need to do a little more cogitating to see what is amiss.

Cheers

Thor

Hmm. They were cut to length, sized in a 3" 500 Nitro Express die and annealed. It might be the diameter at the mouth of the case is too large as they are 2.510" and the NE die isn't sizing them down far enough. Try this: take a sharpie and color the entire case and try again. The scuff marks will tell you where the interference lies.

Another possibility; some of the early BPEs were chambered for coiled brass cases - these cases had a solid head affixed to a coiled brass body. They have a noticeable wasp-waist. I ran into this on a 450BPE made in the mid 1870s.

 

[Thor]

I will give that a go; thanks for the sharpie tip.

 

[Mij]

One of the most enjoyable threads I’ve read on INGO.

 

[AndreusMaximus]

One of the most enjoyable threads I’ve read on INGO.

I second that. Thanks for the continued updates, @Thor!

 

[Thor]

Greetings again,

It looks to me like the .500 BPE cases are getting stopped in the chamber by a bit too much width at the base about .5" from the rim. I'll have to do a little more scrutinizing soon.

 

[JohnKDM]

Greetings again,

It looks to me like the .500 BPE cases are getting stopped in the chamber by a bit too much width at the base about .5" from the rim. I'll have to do a little more scrutinizing soon.

That strongly suggests a coiled case chamber as they had a separate case head attached to a coiled brass case body similar to a shotgun shell. There was a taper from the base forward and then a mostly straight case to the mouth for the coiled portion. Like the ones on the left in the picture below:

You might try taking diameter measurements of your chamber cast all along the length to determine if it is a drawn-case straight taper or two separate tapers as found on a coiled case.