$500 vs $2500 AR-15

[Leo]

Your preaching to the (OCD) driver ......where you on my race team as we threw common sense out the window and chased a national championship........HHHHHHHHMMMMMMMM......I'm seeing a pattern here.....OCD......nation championship....nation matches......big horsepower.......across the course.......win/loose by ..007 of a second........win/loose by the X count..........

I once convinced myself if I polish the inside of the wheels, I will have less drag on the car and pick up .0001's of a second......OCD......

I was in a restaurant after a HighPower match at Atterberry. I think everyone there had Expert or Master classification cards. The subject of cars came around, to a man, everyone was a hot rodder in their youth. Not the kind that Kmart stripes on the car mother bought for them. They were the kind that ditched school so he could finish putting in a radical camshaft. The kind that bought a rusty station wagon because it had a 4 bbl 383 and torqueflight that he stuffed into an old Dart. Something about competing with machinery crossed over to shooting.

Makes met think of our old friend Churchmouse, may he RIP.

 

[Scott58]

Been thinking of another AR. Seeing Colt (CZ?) again at RK . anyone seen this new offerings? They're going for about a grand.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Been thinking of another AR. Seeing Colt (CZ?) again at RK . anyone seen this new offerings? They're going for about a grand.

This new offering? The return of the M6700 and the 6940?


Can you tell us the model please.

 

[drillsgt]

This new offering? The return of the M6700 and the 6940?


Can you tell us the model please.

I don't see anything new and unusual

Rifles : RK Guns

Get the best price on Rifles with no FFL transfer fees! Shop our large selection of firearms and enjoy quick and easy online ordering.

www.rkguns.com

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I don't see anything new and unusual

Rifles : RK Guns

Get the best price on Rifles with no FFL transfer fees! Shop our large selection of firearms and enjoy quick and easy online ordering.

www.rkguns.com

Oh, look at that M6720s back on the menu!


Nothing new, Scott, maybe recycled.

I have the new 6940 and 6920SOCOM. What would you like to know?

 

[Scott58]

Oh, look at that M6720s back on the menu!


Nothing new, Scott, maybe recycled.

I have the new 6940 and 6920SOCOM. What would you like to know?

Any changes since CZ took over? Haven't seen colt in awhile.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Any changes since CZ took over? Haven't seen colt in awhile.

1. Changes? You mean did CZ fire Colts board of directors, then re-hire them to hand carry the plant to Arkansas or Indiana? Sadly no.
I wish there were changes at Colt.

2. Have not seen a Colt? Quiz time: who is the only gun company with a worse marketing program than Walther (HK too maybe)? Right, Colt.

If I ran Colt we would stop eating the seed money (so little money is put into R&D), leave CT tomorrow, we would actually listen to the customers and make what they wanted (retros are hot now, how about a 50K of M723s, bring back the 3 assembly lines), and I would be directly involved in Colt marketing, no more special dealer nonsense, stop stepping on our own thingies, and shake hands, kiss babies, conventions, youtubers, media blitz royale!

Colt has to do something, the smaller makers, BCM, LMT, Centurion are eating their lunch on quality and PSA is getting expontentially better yearly, and they are cloning the world.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Colt is outsourcing production to reduce costs, this upsets many purists. TDP is TDP, I don't care if Wilson, Green or Colt makes my TDP barrel.

The "good news" is that FMF approves more Colt sales (Colt just got 5K unit contract to Slovakia) and potential war with Iran and PRC looming, Uncle Sugar will be buying in bulk soon.

 

[sadclownwp]

I used to be the guy that tried to put together the cheapest AR I could, then I would slowly upgrade it over time. Then by the time I finished upgrading it to make it light and accurate, and functional under the worst circumstances, I would find myself putting another 1000 into it.

Now I just buy Adams Arms Piston AR's and when I want the most accurate piston gun out of the box, I get POF's.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I used to be the guy that tried to put together the cheapest AR I could, then I would slowly upgrade it over time. Then by the time I finished upgrading it to make it light and accurate, and functional under the worst circumstances, I would find myself putting another 1000 into it.

Now I just buy Adams Arms Piston AR's and when I want the most accurate piston gun out of the box, I get POF's.

We are blessed with many solid AR makers.

So many people are making AR-15s that my mother is making AR-15s and is using photos of the grandkids as CAGE codes.

 

[DadSmith]

How hard do you run your AR-15 before you consider it reliable?
I ask because I imagine everyone has a different opinion on this.

Do you run it 1000rds in one range trip, or 500rds spread out over several days?

Do you run it as fast as you can pull the trigger, but still able to hit targets? Etc etc etc....

How hard do you run your AR-15, and what is the regimen you use to determine its reliability?

 

[KellyinAvon]

We are blessed with many solid AR makers.

So many people are making AR-15s that my mother is making AR-15s and is using photos of the grandkids as CAGE codes.

CAGE (Commercial And Government Entity) Codes are 6-digit alpha-numeric. I'm cool with your Mom making ARs, but let's not joke about CAGE Codes.

I mean if we start joking about CAGE Codes, that's a slippery slope to National Stock Numbers in Wing-Dings.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

CAGE (Commercial And Government Entity) Codes are 6-digit alpha-numeric. I'm cool with your Mom making ARs, but let's not joke about CAGE Codes.

I mean if we start joking about CAGE Codes, that's a slippery slope to National Stock Numbers in Wing-Dings.

I'm going to mock CAGE codes and NSNs even harder now but as soon as I find out the Air Force equivalent to DA3234 I will use full on Kirkasm, which is sarcasm which makes people cry.

 

[KellyinAvon]

I'm going to mock CAGE codes and NSNs even harder now but as soon as I find out the Air Force equivalent to DA3234 I will use full on Kirkasm, which is sarcasm which makes people cry.

AF Form 2005? And don’t confuse me with the Mayor of Lafayette who probably cries a lot.

 

[92FSTech]

How hard do you run your AR-15 before you consider it reliable?
I ask because I imagine everyone has a different opinion on this.

Do you run it 1000rds in one range trip, or 500rds spread out over several days?

Do you run it as fast as you can pull the trigger, but still able to hit targets? Etc etc etc....

How hard do you run your AR-15, and what is the regimen you use to determine its reliability?

Round count is only one very small measure of reliability.

How does the gun shoot from non-tradition positions? Suppressed (if that's something you plan to do with it)? One-handed? Over the shoulder? Those changes of inertia can cause problems for a gun that's marginal to start with.

How about reloads? Do a wide variety of mags drop free cleanly, or seat properly under a closed bolt? Does the optic/irons hold up to environmental conditions (rain/snow/sleet/130 degrees to -40 or so that it might encounter outside in a car) and hold zero after getting knocked around or vibrated around in the back of a car for months? Do the controls operate positively or are they rough or even hang up midway through their travel due to poor finishing QC? Is the bore in the bolt carrier properly polished or is it rough and going to eat gas rings in short order? Is the castle nut going to vibrate loose because it's improperly staked? Same with the gas block and gas key.

IMO, it takes running the gun through an extensive and amplified version of it's expected use environment to make sure that it's going to be reliable, not just shooting a bunch of rounds through it. Unless it's absolute garbage, even a bargain basement AR will probably get through 1000 rounds on a static range. It may not hold up to all of the other stuff, though.

I don't really have a set way to evaluate a new gun beyond just using it, and checking it regularly to make sure everything is still good. If possible it's nice to run it through a class or two. Buying quality up front does instill confidence that it's less likely to have issues, and knowledge of what to look for when you inspect the gun helps as well...but there's no substitute for actual use.

 

[DadSmith]

Round count is only one very small measure of reliability.

How does the gun shoot from non-tradition positions? Suppressed (if that's something you plan to do with it)? One-handed? Over the shoulder? Those changes of inertia can cause problems for a gun that's marginal to start with.

How about reloads? Do a wide variety of mags drop free cleanly, or seat properly under a closed bolt? Does the optic/irons hold up to environmental conditions (rain/snow/sleet/130 degrees to -40 or so that it might encounter outside in a car) and hold zero after getting knocked around or vibrated around in the back of a car for months? Do the controls operate positively or are they rough or even hang up midway through their travel due to poor finishing QC? Is the bore in the bolt carrier properly polished or is it rough and going to eat gas rings in short order? Is the castle nut going to vibrate loose because it's improperly staked? Same with the gas block and gas key.

IMO, it takes running the gun through an extensive and amplified version of it's expected use environment to make sure that it's going to be reliable, not just shooting a bunch of rounds through it. Unless it's absolute garbage, even a bargain basement AR will probably get through 1000 rounds on a static range. It may not hold up to all of the other stuff, though.

I don't really have a set way to evaluate a new gun beyond just using it, and checking it regularly to make sure everything is still good. If possible it's nice to run it through a class or two. Buying quality up front does instill confidence that it's less likely to have issues, and knowledge of what to look for when you inspect the gun helps as well...but there's no substitute for actual use.

So this is what you do personally with every AR-15 you own to check reliability?

 

[Scott58]

I don't really run anything that hard. I learned in the service early on that full auto would make you non effective pretty quick. Same goes for pulling the trigger as fast as you can. Not to say I haven't done it, but its not the norm.

 

[92FSTech]

So this is what you do personally with every AR-15 you own to check reliability?

Sort of. The ones that are going to get used for anything serious (home defense, patrol rifle, etc.) yes, ideally. I'll inspect it and shoot it quite a bit up front, but it's not really a one-time test...more of an ongoing process. And I don't typically go out and just dump rounds through it...it gets zeroed and I'll run drills with it. I'm more concerned about how it performs in practical use than I am total round count.

I make sure to keep an eye on those potential failure points and check them on a regular basis to make sure they're holding up. Use case also dictates the concerns...a home defense rifle that sits in a safe or on a shelf in a climate controlled house has a different level of concern than a patrol rifle that's getting rattled around in a squad car every day, or a combat rifle that's getting dragged through the weather and the mud on a consistent basis.

There's also the range toy/training ARs. I don't worry about them so much. I want them to be reliable so that they're effective in their purpose, but if something breaks I can fix it at my leisure. 100% reliability isn't life and death critical with them.

 

[hoosierdaddy1976]

I'm going to mock CAGE codes and NSNs even harder now but as soon as I find out the Air Force equivalent to DA3234 I will use full on Kirkasm, which is sarcasm which makes people cry.

Well, tbh, that's probably the least icky thing a Kirkasm could be.

 

[KellyinAvon]

Well, tbh, that's probably the least icky thing a Kirkasm could be.

I’m glad he clarified it was a form of sarcasm. I thought I was going to have to put on the Mod hat and remind him to keep it family friendly around here.