9mm vs .40, vs .45 ACP new FBI testing (let the fun begin)

[richardraw316]

SS190 does shoot through a lot.

Paper, cardboard, a cracker, a cd but only if you are a really good shot.

 

[Paul30]

Yes, it does. Actually a decent round. Several Law Enforcement agencies carry it world wide. Secret Service carries it also.

FN Five-seven - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[ModernGunner]

Well, it looks like when all the 'dust' settles', the bottom line is: Hit what you shoot at.

 

[Hohn]

I have to agree. I run the short barrel 180 gold dots. I may be switching to the HST next run. I've been liking what I've been seeing in the HST tests.

The 180gr short barrel GDHP is one of the few loads on the market that is actually close to the ORIGINAL FBI spec for .40SW-- 950fps at 180gr.

You'd think that a measly 50-60fps wouldn't matter much in snap, but it does.

If you slow that 180gr GD down to .45 velocities in the 900fps range, you'll find that the ballistics aren't appreciably worsened, but the 'snap' of a .40SW is almost completely gone.

I lay this challenge to the .40SW haters-- load some 200gr Nosler JHPs Hornady XTPs at 850-900fps in a .40sw case. Tell me you think that recoil is snappy. Then shoot it into some gel and watch it go an easy 16" +.

Slightly slower .40SW loads are one of the best kept secrets around, imo. Recoil is mild so you get all the things you like about a 9mm or .45 in terms of recoil mildness, but it hits harder than a 9mm does and penetrates well.

JMO

 

[churchmouse]

Well, it looks like when all the 'dust' settles', the bottom line is: Hit what you shoot at.

Pretty much sums it up.

 

[Paul30]

And snappy depends on the gun. I heard several claim the shield in a 40 was very snappy, but in a 9mm it was comfortable. I purchased the 9mm for several other reasons anyway, but I believed the guy on snappy in a short light pistol. On the other hand my Sig Sauer P226 in 40 feels just like my other full size 9mm, I don't notice a difference. And yes, shot placement will be the primary stopping factor, always.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

And snappy depends on the gun. I heard several claim the shield in a 40 was very snappy, but in a 9mm it was comfortable. I purchased the 9mm for several other reasons anyway, but I believed the guy on snappy in a short light pistol. On the other hand my Sig Sauer P226 in 40 feels just like my other full size 9mm, I don't notice a difference. And yes, shot placement will be the primary stopping factor, always.

I'd agree with this. The first .40 I ever owned was an all metal CZ, and it did not feel snappy. Glock, on the other hand, does. Lighter weight and my hands don't fit the grip as well = less controlled recoil.

 

[Tombs]

Yes, it does. Actually a decent round. Several Law Enforcement agencies carry it world wide. Secret Service carries it also.

FN Five-seven - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If it wasn't for restricting ammo sales, I think the five seven would be much more favorable to people after they saw what it was capable of compared to most other common calibers of today.

Just need a hotter version of the SS197 to make the platform viable. There's a reason rifles are rifles and handguns are handguns. The 5.7 loaded properly is capable of blurring that line to an extent.

But if all we have is watered down FMJ and open tip loads, of course it's not going to compare favorably to any normal JHP of today. Really, just releasing the SS198 to be bought by normal people as opposed to LEO only would make the handgun plenty viable.

 

[littletommy]

FTW...

Betcha can't guess who repped BBI for that post.

 

[sliptap]

no love for the 10mm???

 

[bingley]

Now that is data security I can get behind...

You can "get behind"???

I am guessing people are going to start carrying hard drives in their shirt pockets instead of bibles from now on...

 

[Tombs]

no love for the 10mm???

I find the lack of love for the 357sig to be the most shameful thing. Everyone loves the 357 magnum, it provides comparable performance with comparable bullets in the 125gr range. Converting a 40S&W to a 357sig generally results in less muzzle flip and less felt recoil, with an equal or greater amount of energy. Secret service used to use it in sig P229 DAKs, not sure if they still do.

10mm is great but I feel as though it's a better hunting round than defensive round. Load it up with 200gr XTPs and you have excellent medicine for most anything in north america. With lighter bullets, it'll just over drive them until you dial down the velocity, then you're back to 40S&W performance.

For that matter, I wonder why the 9x23mm isn't commonplace. As it's even a decent step up in power from the 357 sig, while being an extremely simple round. Simply a lengthened 9mm.

 

[in625shooter]

I find the lack of love for the 357sig to be the most shameful thing. Everyone loves the 357 magnum, it provides comparable performance with comparable bullets in the 125gr range. Converting a 40S&W to a 357sig generally results in less muzzle flip and less felt recoil, with an equal or greater amount of energy. Secret service used to use it in sig P229 DAKs, not sure if they still do.

10mm is great but I feel as though it's a better hunting round than defensive round. Load it up with 200gr XTPs and you have excellent medicine for most anything in north america. With lighter bullets, it'll just over drive them until you dial down the velocity, then you're back to 40S&W performance.

For that matter, I wonder why the 9x23mm isn't commonplace. As it's even a decent step up in power from the 357 sig, while being an extremely simple round. Simply a lengthened 9mm.

The USSS use the standard 229 in 357 SIG with a Decocker (along with several other items). The lack of love for the 9X23 is more due to the fact that most were in a 1911 platform (never an across the board platform for most agencies) and with the length of the case it was a larger handgun comparable to a double stack 45. The 9X23 was also a little late and was simply put similar to a 38 super loaded from the factory to what a 38 Super could handle, no new ideas there. The 357 SIG has a slightly smaller grip area along with the ballistics it has is a couple reasons. Of course one of the first agencies to adopt the 357 SIG TX DPS recently dropped the 357 SIG for the 9mm.

 

[jtwilson3]

I don't see anything here stated about .25?............

 

[WyldeShot]

no love for the 10mm???

There have been a lot of people talking about this picture above and the move to/back 9mm. My defense round is a .40 S&W 180 gr PDX1 in a xDm 3.8. I see that the penetration of the .40 180gr JHP is about the same as the 9mm. Shouldn't we be concerned about the wound cavity too? I understand that the 9mm has less recoil meaning that someone might be able to get off more rounds but I'm not sure how big of an issue this is if you train with a .40.

On another note, I've never shot a 10mm but I understand the recoil has a snap. The wound cavity and penetration looks impressive! I'm sure it would make one hell of a hunting round.

 

[AngryRooster]

There have been a lot of people talking about this picture above and the move to/back 9mm. My defense round is a .40 S&W 180 gr PDX1 in a xDm 3.8. I see that the penetration of the .40 180gr JHP is about the same as the 9mm. Shouldn't we be concerned about the wound cavity too? I understand that the 9mm has less recoil meaning that someone might be able to get off more rounds but I'm not sure how big of an issue this is if you train with a .40.

On another note, I've never shot a 10mm but I understand the recoil has a snap. The wound cavity and penetration looks impressive! I'm sure it would make one hell of a hunting round.

But the radiation level coming off of that 10mm would be horrible.

 

[RMC]

I see the 357 Sig is only at 1300 fps. I push them through my Glock a lot faster than that and the accuracy is awesome. I also use 200 gr JHP in my 1911 that I think would rival the 10mm. For self defense they may not be 100% lethal but they sure as hell would make almost anyone limp.

 

[Hohn]

no love for the 10mm???

I've got lots love for my favorite G20!

Aside from the hilarious photoshopping on that pic, I find it really interesting how it's always posted to show that "There's no real difference between the common service calibers."

But it shows exactly the opposite. The dye in injected into those cavities will show much darker spots where the dye is thickest. So the really dark wound tracks have a LOT more permanent cavity volume than those with pink or light red indications.


Properly understood, that picture actually shows that the 165gr .40SW loading is almost a class by itself in terms of the damage it does while STILL achieving proper penetration.

 

[D-Ric902]

A friend of mine asked me about this issue. I asked him if he has ever shot any steel, he said that he had not.I told him to take a good 9mm and a good 45 and shoot something other than paper. He carries a 45 now.

 

[biggen]

We all know that the 9MM will kill the body,but the 45 kills the soul.