A couple of old rifles.

[DoggyDaddy]

The Long rifle is Very nice.. amazing how many rifle variations the small country of Belgium had.. and then to boot they had a unique and odd ball cartridge, again nice long rifle...

Not Belgium... The Netherlands.

 

[indiucky]

My Indonesian was born in 1914. Trust me, you don't want to see those photos!

I might....DON'T JUDGE ME!!!!!!!!!

 

[indy1919a4]

Not Belgium... The Netherlands.

Oh Crap, Looks like missed that country by a few 100 yards

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Oh Crap, Looks like missed that country by a few 100 yards

 

[indy1919a4]

You told me your Indonesian maid was born in 1999...... What are you talking about???? Oh no...She hasn't found your hidden camera has she?

Noooooooo Maria found the camera????... Oh man and I just canceled Cable

 

[NKBJ]

Bought mine for a cast bullet small game rifle.
The rifling fell out when cleaned with Hoppes 9.
Original military soft nickel jacketed ammo had been shot by the previous owner.
The steel had rotted behind the silver colored jacket fouling.
The pitting is too much to polish out.
Reboring to .303 is not an option due to the case shoulder location. And the 6.5 brass, dies and molds are on hand. The cartridge cries out for paper patched bullets.
Seriously considered making it a .41 mag but the front band geometry would make the barrel wall very thin.
I'm looking at ponying up the bucks to have the barrel replaced in a full 6.5x53R refurbishment. And I'm shopping around for suitable antique optics (in for penny...).

 

[indy1919a4]

Bought mine for a cast bullet small game rifle.
The rifling fell out when cleaned with Hoppes 9.
Original military soft nickel jacketed ammo had been shot by the previous owner.
The steel had rotted behind the silver colored jacket fouling.
The pitting is too much to polish out.
Reboring to .303 is not an option due to the case shoulder location. And the 6.5 brass, dies and molds are on hand. The cartridge cries out for paper patched bullets.
Seriously considered making it a .41 mag but the front band geometry would make the barrel wall very thin.
I'm looking at ponying up the bucks to have the barrel replaced in a full 6.5x53R refurbishment. And I'm shopping around for suitable antique optics (in for penny...).

So how much would you be looking at to put a new barrel in it...????

 

[NKBJ]

So far it's goofy expensive (way more than the gun is worth) but I'm still working on the project.
Reckon it's a matter of what I'm willing to have done and where I'd rather spend the money.
It could turn into 700 real quick if I get what I'd like... and for 700 I could do a lot of other things.

 

[BogWalker]

These rifles are also curious in that the Dutch never switched them to a spitzer round as nearly every other nation did with their service cartridges at the turn of the 20th century.

 

[AmmoManAaron]

I think I'm going to try and make my own 53R ammo and leave them as they are. I've got everything I need except a set of 6.5x54MS dies. I need to shoot up some 303 so I will have the brass to make it with though.

Hold up DoggyDaddy, those dies won't work. The 6.5x53R Dutch has much different dimensions than the 6.5x54MS. Also be aware that when forming cases from .303 British, you may have to neck ream and turn down the case head slightly just above the rim where the dies don't reach and the case is solid. There is a pretty broad range of minor variations in .303 British brass that you don't normally notice until you go and try to turn it in to 6.5x53R Dutch. If you are lucky, your Dutch rifle will be a little more generous in chamber dimensions than mine and you won't have problems, but believe me, making this caliber can be a lot more of a pain than it first appears. The easiest .303 British brass that I found to convert (no neck reaming and no case head turning) was old Winchester Super-X brass (think 1950s-1970s); other brands and vintages that I have tried so far (haven't tried them all by any means) required varying degrees of additional work. Honestly, I've found it easier just to convert the original berdan primed stuff to standard large rifle boxer. The original Dutch brass is very odd, it uses a berdan size that is unique to Dutch ammo and the berdan anvil has a small flash hole right through the center of it, rather than one, two, or three offset flash holes located around the circumference of the anvil. Google "Roth patent berdan," even though Roth wasn't involved in the design, his factory built some of the first berdan cases of this type so his name became associated with it. Anyway, after decapping with a Lachmiller tool, just use an end mill chucked in a cordless drill to take out the anvil and bring the pocket up to appropriate large rifle boxer diameter (the pocket is only about .003"-.004" too small), then ream the flash hole up to standard dimensions so you don't get your decapping pin stuck when you do your full-length sizing. Doing these modifications to original brass is a lot easier than it sounds and is certainly the easier path if your Brit brass and gun combination require turning the case head. If your Brit brass will form and fit without neck reaming or case head turning, by all means feel blessed and run with that!




491770]

[/QUOTE]

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Hold up DoggyDaddy, those dies won't work. The 6.5x53R Dutch has much different dimensions than the 6.5x54MS. Also be aware that when forming cases from .303 British, you may have to neck ream and turn down the case head slightly just above the rim where the dies don't reach and the case is solid. There is a pretty broad range of minor variations in .303 British brass that you don't normally notice until you go and try to turn it in to 6.5x53R Dutch. If you are lucky, your Dutch rifle will be a little more generous in chamber dimensions than mine and you won't have problems, but believe me, making this caliber can be a lot more of a pain than it first appears. The easiest .303 British brass that I found to convert (no neck reaming and no case head turning) was old Winchester Super-X brass (think 1950s-1970s); other brands and vintages that I have tried so far (haven't tried them all by any means) required varying degrees of additional work. Honestly, I've found it easier just to convert the original berdan primed stuff to standard large rifle boxer. The original Dutch brass is very odd, it uses a berdan size that is unique to Dutch ammo and the berdan anvil has a small flash hole right through the center of it, rather than one, two, or three offset flash holes located around the circumference of the anvil. Google "Roth patent berdan," even though Roth wasn't involved in the design, his factory built some of the first berdan cases of this type so his name became associated with it. Anyway, after decapping with a Lachmiller tool, just use an end mill chucked in a cordless drill to take out the anvil and bring the pocket up to appropriate large rifle boxer diameter (the pocket is only about .003"-.004" too small), then ream the flash hole up to standard dimensions so you don't get your decapping pin stuck when you do your full-length sizing. Doing these modifications to original brass is a lot easier than it sounds and is certainly the easier path if your Brit brass and gun combination require turning the case head. If your Brit brass will form and fit without neck reaming or case head turning, by all means feel blessed and run with that!

This is where I saw the conversion method described: RELOAD: Re-forming 303 brass for 6.5x53R

It's a multi-step process for sure!

 

[AmmoManAaron]

This is where I saw the conversion method described: RELOAD: Re-forming 303 brass for 6.5x53R

It's a multi-step process for sure!

Wow, I don't think I would want to do that unless the proper 6.5x53R dies were very expensive. The dimensions and taper angle are different enough that it could be hard on your brass when you do your subsequent reloads even if you are only "partially" sizing the case; they barely touch on it, but using that process will have you fire-forming your brass to your chamber because the 6.5x54MS die will make your cases undersize. With 6.5x53R dies, you will get the correct dimensions on the first go around and you won't have to worry about your set-up on subsequent reloads (in other words, how undersize do you have to make certain dimensions in order to size other areas down enough that the round will fit in the chamber). I have, and continue, to load for a .410 Enfield Musket using a non-ideal setup similar to the one described, but case life is shortened and the rounds look ugly as heck. With the .410 Enfield Musket, you don't have much of a choice, but hopefully the new 6.5x53R die situation isn't as bad (I bought mine used at a gunshow for around $20).

OK, I just looked and a new set of 6.5x53R dies is just under $90 from CH4D, kinda salty for sure but not as bad as RCBS. Looks like new 6.5x54MS dies are over $60, so they are cheaper...

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Wow, I don't think I would want to do that unless the proper 6.5x53R dies were very expensive. The dimensions and taper angle are different enough that it could be hard on your brass when you do your subsequent reloads even if you are only "partially" sizing the case; they barely touch on it, but using that process will have you fire-forming your brass to your chamber because the 6.5x54MS die will make your cases undersize. With 6.5x53R dies, you will get the correct dimensions on the first go around and you won't have to worry about your set-up on subsequent reloads (in other words, how undersize do you have to make certain dimensions in order to size other areas down enough that the round will fit in the chamber). I have, and continue, to load for a .410 Enfield Musket using a non-ideal setup similar to the one described, but case life is shortened and the rounds look ugly as heck. With the .410 Enfield Musket, you don't have much of a choice, but hopefully the new 6.5x53R die situation isn't as bad (I bought mine used at a gunshow for around $20).

OK, I just looked and a new set of 6.5x53R dies is just under $90 from CH4D, kinda salty for sure but not as bad as RCBS. Looks like new 6.5x54MS dies are over $60, so they are cheaper...

I'm not familiar with CH4D... When I googled for 6.5x53R dies I didn't have any luck finding them. I'm all for doing it "right" if possible. Unprimed 53R brass that I could find was over 4 bucks apiece. The loaded ammo (out of stock now on Buffalo Arms) is cheaper than just the unprimed brass. Something tells me I'm not going to be shooting this rifle much.

 

[indy1919a4]

So far it's goofy expensive (way more than the gun is worth) but I'm still working on the project.
Reckon it's a matter of what I'm willing to have done and where I'd rather spend the money.
It could turn into 700 real quick if I get what I'd like... and for 700 I could do a lot of other things.

That almost seems to much to repair..

 

[AmmoManAaron]

I'm not familiar with CH4D... When I googled for 6.5x53R dies I didn't have any luck finding them. I'm all for doing it "right" if possible. Unprimed 53R brass that I could find was over 4 bucks apiece. The loaded ammo (out of stock now on Buffalo Arms) is cheaper than just the unprimed brass. Something tells me I'm not going to be shooting this rifle much.

I haven't used any of their dies yet, but no one I know has said anything bad about them. My understanding is that they work fine, are cheaper than RCBS, and they manufacture a wider variety of dies than anyone else on the planet. I'm considering buying several different calibers from them, things like .43 Egyptian. RCBS and CH4D are the only two that I know of making the 6.5x53R. The prices for new 53R brass are insane, making it from .303 or converting berdan is the way to go at the prices everyone seems to want. Surplus ammo can be had for $2 a round if you know where to look, I've got a few hundred rounds along with WAY more clips than I need - I would be willing to part with some of each if that will help you, but the surplus brass case stuff has some duds in it.

 

[AmmoManAaron]

Bought mine for a cast bullet small game rifle.
The rifling fell out when cleaned with Hoppes 9.
Original military soft nickel jacketed ammo had been shot by the previous owner.
The steel had rotted behind the silver colored jacket fouling.
The pitting is too much to polish out.
Reboring to .303 is not an option due to the case shoulder location. And the 6.5 brass, dies and molds are on hand. The cartridge cries out for paper patched bullets.
Seriously considered making it a .41 mag but the front band geometry would make the barrel wall very thin.
I'm looking at ponying up the bucks to have the barrel replaced in a full 6.5x53R refurbishment. And I'm shopping around for suitable antique optics (in for penny...).

So far it's goofy expensive (way more than the gun is worth) but I'm still working on the project.
Reckon it's a matter of what I'm willing to have done and where I'd rather spend the money.
It could turn into 700 real quick if I get what I'd like... and for 700 I could do a lot of other things.

I would recommend buying a sporterized gun with a good bore and uncut barrel, use the parts from your gun to make one complete mil-spec gun, sell off any extra parts.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I haven't used any of their dies yet, but no one I know has said anything bad about them. My understanding is that they work fine, are cheaper than RCBS, and they manufacture a wider variety of dies than anyone else on the planet. I'm considering buying several different calibers from them, things like .43 Egyptian. RCBS and CH4D are the only two that I know of making the 6.5x53R. The prices for new 53R brass are insane, making it from .303 or converting berdan is the way to go at the prices everyone seems to want. Surplus ammo can be had for $2 a round if you know where to look, I've got a few hundred rounds along with WAY more clips than I need - I would be willing to part with some of each if that will help you, but the surplus brass case stuff has some duds in it.

I appreciate the info and the offer! But I'm assuming that the surplus is Berdan primed? I don't have an end mill or anything to do that primer pocket conversion that you mentioned. I do have a Berdan primer removal tool from RCBS though. Maybe I will look for the CH4D die set. I wonder if it's too late to cancel my order for the 6.5x54MS...

ETA: Just submitted a cancel request to Amazon... hopefully it's not too late.

ETA Pt. 2: Looks like the cancellation was successful! Whew!

 

[indy1919a4]

Just for fun, there is a display at the National Military Museum of Netherlands that shows the steps to make an clip...

And DD is that not your rifle on the second guy on the left??? .. The place those guys have their ammo pouch would seem to make low crawling hard...

 

[AmmoManAaron]

I appreciate the info and the offer! But I'm assuming that the surplus is Berdan primed? I don't have an end mill or anything to do that primer pocket conversion that you mentioned. I do have a Berdan primer removal tool from RCBS though. Maybe I will look for the CH4D die set. I wonder if it's too late to cancel my order for the 6.5x54MS...

ETA: Just submitted a cancel request to Amazon... hopefully it's not too late.

ETA Pt. 2: Looks like the cancellation was successful! Whew!

Yep, berdan and corrosive. You're welcome

And even though they cost more, I think you will be happier with the correct dies, it makes things soooo much easier!

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Just for fun, there is a display at the National Military Museum of Netherlands that shows the steps to make an clip...

And DD is that not your rifle on the second guy on the left??? .. The place those guys have their ammo pouch would seem to make low crawling hard...

I think being on a bicycle would make low crawling a lot more difficult than the ammo pouch!