a rant that will probably tick quite a few off regarding Military/LEOs

[churchmouse]

Well said.

Please extend my gratitude to your uncles for their service to our republic.

Thank you. One has recently passed from long term effects from our favorite defoliant agent orange. The 2nd is at the end of his time as well. Very ill. They taught me to shoot, run and hide from a very young age.
I will pass your thanks along.

 

[steveh_131]

Perhaps we are using the wrong criteria for assigning respect.

Do we say all Cops must be scum because of the actions of one? No, that certainly isn't fair. Should we then say that all Cops deserve respect because of a few that actually did something respectable? Similarly, I would say no.

If I see an officer on the side of the road, helping someone change a tire...that earns respect. They may not be dodging bullets, but they are serving another human being in need, in a capacity that offers little glory or recognition. When I read about an officer putting himself in danger or even dying to protect another person, he is certainly deserving of respect as well. This is the ultimate expression of love for another human being.

On the flip side, when I see one on the side of the road collecting taxes from motorists...there is little respect to be earned.

And let's keep in mind that you don't have to be in a paid public service profession to give of yourself for another person.

 

[jeremy]

Something has been swirling around in my grey matter for a while that has really started to irk me.

Why does the general society place such importance on military and LEOs? It is almost as if godhood status has been bestowed on people that have VOLUNTARILY chosen a dangerous profession. It is akin, IMO, to the idiotic idolatry of celebrities. Not any of the above mentioned professions are forced upon a single soul in the USA. We do not have conscription; have not had a draft since the early 1970s; do not force people into jobs that garner the spotlight. These jobs are CHOICES made at the individual level. Pure and simple.

Do not get me wrong. I appreciate most of what military and LEOs do for security purposes. I simply refuse to give them any more credit than "job well done" when it is merited.

Your thoughts?

My thoughts...

I am cool with your attitude. I did not Join the Military or spend the better part of most of my life abroad for your safety nor your security. I joined because I like to break **** other People have paid for and I really like to blow stuff up...

 

[fireblade]

Something has been swirling around in my grey matter for a while that has really started to irk me.

Why does the general society place such importance on military and LEOs? It is almost as if godhood status has been bestowed on people that have VOLUNTARILY chosen a dangerous profession. It is akin, IMO, to the idiotic idolatry of celebrities. Not any of the above mentioned professions are forced upon a single soul in the USA. We do not have conscription; have not had a draft since the early 1970s; do not force people into jobs that garner the spotlight. These jobs are CHOICES made at the individual level. Pure and simple.

Do not get me wrong. I appreciate most of what military and LEOs do for security purposes. I simply refuse to give them any more credit than "job well done" when it is merited.

Your thoughts?

wow........am sorry you feel that way military/LEOs deserve the respect am retired army have family who work in Police force ..........am here to tell you i have seen sacrifice given not by just us military or the LEO's doing there duty there family must sacrifice also in ways you can't imageine.......

Your comments are a perfect example of how people don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it......most American are ashamed of the treatment they gave to soldiers during and after Vietnam . Most support there military even if they don't support the war, they do not want to repeat the shame of are past so they go out of there way to show support. I wonder if you realize how many who volunteered to put on that uniform gave their lives so you can freely write your comments...

 

[churchmouse]

My thoughts...

I am cool with your attitude. I did not Join the Military or spend the better part of most of my life abroad for your safety nor your safety. I joined because I like to break **** other People have paid for and I really like to blow stuff up...

Now we are down to it....+1

 

[churchmouse]

wow........am sorry you feel that way military/LEOs deserve the respect am retired army have family who work in Police force ..........am here to tell you i have seen sacrifice given not by just us military or the LEO's doing there duty there family must sacrifice also in ways you can't imageine.......

Your comments are a perfect example of how people don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it......most American are ashamed of the treatment they gave to soldiers during and after Vietnam . Most support there military even if they don't support the war, they do not want to repeat the shame of are past so they go out of there way to show support. I wonder if you realize how many who volunteered to put on that uniform gave their lives so you can freely write your comments...

^^^^And this^^^^

I told you (OP) there are a lot of military and LEO on these threads.

 

[finnegan]

I think one of the first steps is to firmly separate "military" and "leo" and let each get back to doing their own jobs. We criticize the military for not being good police in a war zone and criticize leo's for acting like the military on Main Street. The paramilitarization of our police force and the over utilization of SWAT units has led to a very palpable backlash in public opinion, as has using our soldiers as cops.

I realize the days of blue shirts and revolvers, are for most part, over; but a civilian such a police officer that is constantly being told he is fighting a "war" on drugs, or "war" on street crime isn't going to come off as a friendly, helpful public servant. He's going to come off as being what he told he is and is equipped for: a soldier on patrol in a war-zone.

 

[KLB]

I think the support of the military as seen by the OP is a result of the pendulum swinging away from the vitriolic attitude towards them during Viet Nam. I think it was a good swing, as the blaming of the soldiers for the decisions of those in DC was never right.

From the LEO side, many businesses may give them discounts and such because having an officer in person on the premises will reduce the likelihood of a crime being committed. Fostering good will with those that may needed to come to your aid some day is always a good thing to do.

 

[fireblade]

I think one of the first steps is to firmly separate "military" and "leo" and let each get back to doing their own jobs. We criticize the military for not being good police in a war zone and criticize leo's for acting like the military on Main Street. The paramilitarization of our police force and the over utilization of SWAT units has led to a very palpable backlash in public opinion, as has using our soldiers as cops.

I realize the days of blue shirts and revolvers, are for most part, over; but a civilian such a police officer that is constantly being told he is fighting a "war" on drugs, or "war" on street crime isn't going to come off as a friendly, helpful public servant. He's going to come off as being what he told he is and is equipped for: a soldier on patrol in a war-zone.

you nailed it that is in my opinion the real issue with the current public mistrust resentment are coming from..........

Military do not need to act like police .........

Police do not need to act like the military..........

 

[nemo97]

wow........am sorry you feel that way military/LEOs deserve the respect am retired army have family who work in Police force ..........am here to tell you i have seen sacrifice given not by just us military or the LEO's doing there duty there family must sacrifice also in ways you can't imageine.......

Your comments are a perfect example of how people don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it......most American are ashamed of the treatment they gave to soldiers during and after Vietnam . Most support there military even if they don't support the war, they do not want to repeat the shame of are past so they go out of there way to show support. I wonder if you realize how many who volunteered to put on that uniform gave their lives so you can freely write your comments...

And down the road we will repeat history when we are faced with a tyrant that is capable of commanding a well-oiled machine called the military. That future tyrant will turn OUR guns inward on OUR people.

As it exists, it surely seems to appear that the infamous "Industrial Military Complex" has a firm grip on Congress & the people. So history repeats itself indeed. A decent read on IMC: Military

You would be unwise to characterize my original query as a disrespect of military or LEO personnel. To imply as much would be silly as that would show disrespect to what my father and other military/LEOs that have served America back to the American Revolution, the Civil War (both sides of that conflict are represented in the family) and as recently as Viet Nam (not sure if any family have served in the more recent conflicts).

IMO, there is a distinct difference between respecting those in uniform and blindly supporting "engagements" that do not make sense when viewed through what I perceive to be a just use of force. But, this digresses somewhat from the OP when switching tracks to just use of military might.

 

[Birds Away]

I served a long time. More than half my life. I can remember as a young Sailor, we were not allowed to wear our uniform off the ship while in port in the continental US. It was considered too dangerous. There were many countries where we were either encouraged or required to wear our uniforms. They knew we would be treated well. I always thought that a sad commentary on the good ole' USA. I think some people don't understand the difference between duty and job...or maybe I don't anymore. To equate the job of a garbage collector, farmer or fisherman with a LEO is, in my opinion, ridiculous. I am not disparaging those or any other professions. But let's get real! I served from the late 70's until the mid 2000's. I know what it is like to feel the hatred and contempt of the very citizens you are there to protect. No farmer, fisherman or garbage collector knows that feeling. Every LEO does. Most retired military do, to some extent, also. It's a free country so feel however you like. I have never met anyone in the military who would care. I sure don't.

 

[ATOMonkey]

I understand what the OP is saying.

Our society, is a class society, whether we want to admit it or not. It has become more of a class society due to the wars that have been fought continuously for more than a decade.

We elevate everyone in a uniform to "warrior caste" status.

We also have the talking heads telling us that, without a large police presense and a war being fought in a foreign land, we'd all be slaves or dead.

I imagine it would be hard to maintain your humility with every Tom Dick and Harry telling you how awesome you are.

It's all just a product of society, and the inevitable progressive march towards Nationalism.

 

[nemo97]

It's all just a product of society, and the inevitable progressive march towards Nationalism.

What comes after nationalism? Fanatical nationalism?

 

[ATOMonkey]

As far as the Police go... They are the only people who can deprive you of Life or Liberty simply because you don't conform to some politicians idea of what is "right."

Malum Prohibitum law has caused a wide rift between law enforcement and the people they're supposed to protect.

Back when the only laws were malum in se, I'm sure people felt safer knowing the police were around instead of being afraid that they'll be cited for some vague arbitrary infraction.

Let's be honest, the most common contact the public has with law enforcement is traffic citations. That's not exactly going to endear them to the public. Especially since traffic stops are used as fishing expeditions for greater crimes.

 

[ATOMonkey]

What comes after nationalism? Fanatical nationalism?

That's kind of redundant isn't it?

 

[J_Wales]

I think one of the first steps is to firmly separate "military" and "leo" and let each get back to doing their own jobs. We criticize the military for not being good police in a war zone and criticize leo's for acting like the military on Main Street. The paramilitarization of our police force and the over utilization of SWAT units has led to a very palpable backlash in public opinion, as has using our soldiers as cops.

I realize the days of blue shirts and revolvers, are for most part, over; but a civilian such a police officer that is constantly being told he is fighting a "war" on drugs, or "war" on street crime isn't going to come off as a friendly, helpful public servant. He's going to come off as being what he told he is and is equipped for: a soldier on patrol in a war-zone.

 

[J_Wales]

I served a long time. More than half my life. I can remember as a young Sailor, we were not allowed to wear our uniform off the ship while in port in the continental US. It was considered too dangerous. There were many countries where we were either encouraged or required to wear our uniforms. They knew we would be treated well. I always thought that a sad commentary on the good ole' USA. I think some people don't understand the difference between duty and job...or maybe I don't anymore. To equate the job of a garbage collector, farmer or fisherman with a LEO is, in my opinion, ridiculous. I am not disparaging those or any other professions. But let's get real! I served from the late 70's until the mid 2000's. I know what it is like to feel the hatred and contempt of the very citizens you are there to protect. No farmer, fisherman or garbage collector knows that feeling. Every LEO does. Most retired military do, to some extent, also. It's a free country so feel however you like. I have never met anyone in the military who would care. I sure don't.

The reality is that there are more fatalities per 100K for fishermen, farmers, garbage collectors and a host of other occupations, so those positions are not equated with that of law enforcement officer. Those occupations are more deadly.

Lots of brave folks out there worthy of respect, but in my opinion military folks are in general a cut above.

Thank you, Sir, for your service to our republic.

 

[jgreiner]

Something has been swirling around in my grey matter for a while that has really started to irk me.

Why does the general society place such importance on military and LEOs? It is almost as if godhood status has been bestowed on people that have VOLUNTARILY chosen a dangerous profession. It is akin, IMO, to the idiotic idolatry of celebrities. Not any of the above mentioned professions are forced upon a single soul in the USA. We do not have conscription; have not had a draft since the early 1970s; do not force people into jobs that garner the spotlight. These jobs are CHOICES made at the individual level. Pure and simple.

Do not get me wrong. I appreciate most of what military and LEOs do for security purposes. I simply refuse to give them any more credit than "job well done" when it is merited.

Your thoughts?

It takes a very special person that is willing to lay their life down to protect us all. I would include firemen in this group as well. That is why I thank them for their service.

 

[Paul]

As far as the Police go... They are the only people who can deprive you of Life or Liberty simply because you don't conform to some politicians idea of what is "right."

Malum Prohibitum law has caused a wide rift between law enforcement and the people they're supposed to protect.

Back when the only laws were malum in se, I'm sure people felt safer knowing the police were around instead of being afraid that they'll be cited for some vague arbitrary infraction.

Let's be honest, the most common contact the public has with law enforcement is traffic citations. That's not exactly going to endear them to the public. Especially since traffic stops are used as fishing expeditions for greater crimes.

So very true!

 

[jgreiner]

The reality is that there are more fatalities per 100K for fishermen, farmers, garbage collectors and a host of other occupations, so those positions are not equated with that of law enforcement officer. Those occupations are more deadly.

Lots of brave folks out there worthy of respect, but in my opinion military folks are in general a cut above.

Thank you, Sir, for your service to our republic.

People don't realize just how dangerous farming really is. I grew up in North Central Iowa. In a very small rural area. We had one neighbor who's wife had her arm torn off by a grain auger. We had one neighbor who was killed by a holstein bull. And my jr high locker mate was killed when he fell off the tractor and was run over by the disc it was pulling. And his brother (who had been driving the tractor at the time), two years later, was electrocuted when a piece of equipment came into contact with an overhead power line.

No one died in my family, but the list of injuries is long. My grandfather lost a thumb, my brother had his left hand slashed wide open and tendons severed, my dad tore his leg open, and I had a piece of barbed wire driven into my skull (guess that explains a lot).