a rant that will probably tick quite a few off regarding Military/LEOs

[Denny347]

This.

I can't stand the "veterans" that have never met someone that they didn't tell their veteran status to in their first minute of conversation. I served and my service no more makes up who I am than anything else I've done in my life. I don't have vet or service plates or stickers all over my car. I don't wear vet or service clothing. I don't understand the need to make your service known to the world.

It has been my experience that the real combat vets I've talked to, they don't advertise and usually won't talk about it. Those who blather on about their experiences unsolicited are usually full of it.

THIS!!!!
My father in law is a former US Marine during Vietnam. He is a proud Marine but NEVER talks about his service. My Grandfather was a former Marine BAR gunner on Okinawa. Was wounded twice but never received a purple heart...never wanted them. I did not even know about his service until after he passed away.

 

[churchmouse]

My father and uncle both got home from vietnam to be spit on in the airport.
i would rather put a little too much praise now, then risk it ever going back to that.
our soldiers and police are heroes. from the day this country was founded, till today, we should all treat them with the respect they have earned.

^^^^^This^^^^^

My point from earlier thread.

 

[richardraw316]

^^^^^This^^^^^

My point from earlier thread.

sorry i posted before reading them all.

 

[RockofStrength]

I have struggled to articulate a similar thought, OP. I respect Police Officers, Soldiers, and other Emergency personnel as those who willingly throw themselves in harm's way in order to protect others. I have family and friends who are sheriffs/officers, Marines etc and I am proud of their choice to serve. I even considered joining the military at one point, though unfortunately our current political climate quickly soured me to it.

That said, I also think that people in those professions do receive merit that is beyond that of your average working Joe to an excessive degree, but not because soldiers, emts etc are over appreciated. I think the issue is that a working man is generally not respected, which leaves a feeling of under appreciation. So the farmer, the mechanic, the office worker, all see the soldier or the officer being honored (and rightfully so!) by people for the profession they have chosen while the working schlubs work hard and get absolutely no respect for it.

In former times a farmer or a mechanic might have been able to earn the respect of the local community by demonstrating the quality of his work and his character. Now it's hard to do that because your work doesn't do anything that people can see as a benefit to the local community...unless of course you are keeping it safe or helping the injured/distressed as soldiers, police, and others do.

TLDR: The issue is the perceived gulf between the appropriate respect given to those who put their lives on the line for their country, communities etc and the person who works hard but didn't choose a profession worthy of respect because he is so disconnected from the people he helps by working. Soldiers and others receive the proper respect, but the lack of respect for other professions inflates the apparent value of that respect.

 

[jeremy]

Donuts and Coffee, whose in?!

 

[level.eleven]

The modern industrial/legislative/military complex is nothing but another form of welfare. Maximum employment != maximum efficiency. "Wars" or "kinetic military action" aren't fought to protect the nation. That much is blatantly obvious to even the casual observer. Thus, the hero worship, the yellow magnetic stickers, the war worship in church, the war worship around holidays, the war worship before sporting events....etc.

 

[mike8170]

The only "issue" i have with military is when ive talked with people that have been overseas at war and they act like theyre something they are not or as if they are better than you. It seems like the people that advertise their service are the ones that went overseas and sat their @** in the sand for a year or so. Not to take credit away from their service but dont act like youre better than everyone else. I guess this is more of an annoyance than a problem though. Aside from that, all military personel have my much deserved and utmost respect for their service to our great country.

LEO on the other hand, i think are a completely different subject. They have too much authority and abuse it all too often. I dont think that all LEO are this way but but the groups integrity is ruined by the rest of them that have none. I have a bad taste in my mouth for LEO and wont give much praise until earned.

Maybe you take some things the wrong way, IDK. Myself, I don't act like I am better than anyone else, and I don't ask for anything special. I was never even comfortable with people thanking me for my service. But when dealing with other people, I don't trust you. I don't want to know you. I don't want to deal with you. I don't like being in public places, and I don't like being in crowds.. All my buddies are the same way. Needless to say, I don't have "friends." I have buddies and I have acquaintances. I am no better than anyone else, I chose my career.

 

[churchmouse]

Maybe you take some things the wrong way, IDK. Myself, I don't act like I am better than anyone else, and I don't ask for anything special. I was never even comfortable with people thanking me for my service. But when dealing with other people, I don't trust you. I don't want to know you. I don't want to deal with you. I don't like being in public places, and I don't like being in crowds.. All my buddies are the same way. Needless to say, I don't have "friends." I have buddies and I have acquaintances. I am no better than anyone else, I chose my career.

Like it or not, I respect you for your choice to serve. Not personal or meant to put you or any body who has or is serving on the spot or embarrass. It is just who "I" am.

 

[churchmouse]

Donuts and Coffee, whose in?!

I'm in...Time to go get a cup and a good do-nut....I'll drive

 

[Osobuco]

It seems to me that volunteering is why they deserve credit. The person who knowingly and willingly puts themselves in harm's way to protect what you hold dear is worthy of respect. If a random stranger saw a bus about to run down your daughter and he risked his life to push her out of the way, would you simply say "Well done." and move on?

I think there is a difference between a stranger risking his life to save your daughter and someone who is paid for the same act. I think the people the OP is referring to are not volunteers in the true sense of the word. Volunteers do something expecting nothing in return whereas LEO/armed services folks are paid to do a job. Yes, armed services are not "drafted" and they term volunteer is used to refer to them but they are nevertheless paid.

 

[dross]

I was in the Army for 11 years. It always felt odd to me when someone thanked me for my service, though I appreciated it very much, and I still do. I'm always surprised and touched when someone says that.

I went into the Army for a very selfish reason - I wanted to go to school and I didn't know how I would afford it otherwise. Then a funny thing happened - I really took to it.

I only knew one person the entire time I was in - only one - who had joined the Army to fulfull the major purpose of serving his country. Most people were there for one or another reason that was of benefit to them. The one guy I knew whose main goal was to serve had been told by his grandfather - who was a father figure to him because his own father had abandoned the family - that every man should do a stint in the service. So after high school, he did just that, and was happy when his time was up.

I stayed because I liked it. When people thank me for my service, I resist the urge to tell them that I got much more out of it than the Army took from me.

Now, with all that said, the military and the police are still special professions regardless if the people in them are there for the same reasons anyone chooses any career.

In those professions - and there are some others like this as well - part of the job is that you must decide that the preservation of your own life is not your highest value. Men with wives and kids can understand this, but then, it's pretty easy to imagine your own death as a sacrifice for your wife and your kid. In fact, I wouldn't even call that a sacrifice. I'd go to my own death with a big smile on my face if by doing so I saved my daughter's life. That's an easy, easy call.

But what about for a man you don't like? What about in service of a stupid, stupid order, issued by an idiotic egomaniac? Because your view honor and duty is more important than your own life. I didn't have that value going into the Army, but some very good men taught me that and made it a part of me.

I'll let the cops speak for themselves, but I can imagine some similar thoughts. That's why I get so cranky with the SOME cops here who seem to argue that their own lives are their highest value. I can't abide that view in that profession.

So, I thank soldiers and cops, and I think they're special - not special so therefore they became cops and soldiers, but they become special in the course of serving because they wake up one day and realize that their view of the world makes them different, and vulnerable, and they go out anyway.

No one owes me a thanks, no one owes me special treatment, my opinion carries no more weight than a guy who didn't serve. And no free citizen of this country owes that to any cop or any soldier from the citizens who pay for the food their kids eat.

But if some of you get it, and say thanks, or tell me that you appreciate it, hey, I appreciate you back. It's a nice thing to say, and a nice thing to hear, and it's a touching thing when it happens PRECISELY because it's not owed.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Read through post #40 so far:

^5 on your post.

I love being pulled over by a cop (not really), but I do love when asked, "Do you know why I pulled you over?"

"Yes sir/ma'am. I was driving XX in a YY zone." Amazing how shocked a LEO is when you are HONEST with them. Hasn't really gotten me out of tickets, but it sure beats being hassled by them for being a liar. In the event I am ticketed for speeding or something else I have done, I am NEVER upset with the LEO. I am only upset with myself for doing what I knew I shouldn't have been doing.

Good for you for your honesty and for not blaming or being upset with the cop who has only responded to something you have done.

That said, I prefer the answer, "Well, if YOU don't know, I guess I'm free to go, right?"

In all seriousness, however, I'm not one to self-incriminate. If he thinks I was speeding, he can tell me. I'm certainly not going to admit to it.

True....

But if we are going to honor folks for the dangers they face in executing their work, let's give fishermen, loggers, pilots, farmers, coal miners, roofers, garbage men, and truck drivers the respect they deserve.

After all, they assume much more danger than does a police officer but are rarely given much credit at all for doing so.

You're correct that the people in those occupations have a higher death rate/more dangerous job. Thing is, though, you have to ask who they went into that line of work to help. A large percentage of soldiers and emergency workers don't go into their chosen fields just for a paycheck and conversely, most loggers , roofers, and sanitation workers probably don't go into their fields for the joy of a well-cut log, the satisfaction of a roof well-done, or the knowledge that that day, they've helped someone by tossing their garbage can for them. I don't say that to malign any of those or the other professions you quoted from that list, I only wish to point out that the serviceman or public servant (many, anyway) does what they do because of an inner compulsion, a need to give to their fellow man. If that can be done and also earn a paycheck doing it, so much the better.

Hope that helps! (Now on to read the rest of the thread.)

Blessings,
Bill

 

[JAH]

As a 30 year military member here is my two cents.

Personally I feel a little uncomfortable when a total stranger walks up and thanks me.
I am just working at a profession that I love. I do appreciate the thank you however, I believe that a lot of people do it due to the way that the Vietnam veterans were treated when they returned. I thank LEOs for what they do because they are in harms way each and every day.

like I said at the beginning just my two cents.

 

[Bill of Rights]

...
And let's keep in mind that you don't have to be in a paid public service profession to give of yourself for another person.

An excellent point, said better than I tried to say it.

My thoughts...

I am cool with your attitude. I did not Join the Military or spend the better part of most of my life abroad for your safety nor your security. I joined because I like to break **** other People have paid for and I really like to blow stuff up...

I don't know if your post is meant to be sarcastic or funny or serious, Jeremy. I also don't know if the reason you say you joined is also the reason you stayed in. I'm going to take your post to be sarcasm and repeat what I've said to you before: Thank you for your service.

I served a long time. More than half my life. I can remember as a young Sailor, we were not allowed to wear our uniform off the ship while in port in the continental US. It was considered too dangerous. There were many countries where we were either encouraged or required to wear our uniforms. They knew we would be treated well. I always thought that a sad commentary on the good ole' USA. I think some people don't understand the difference between duty and job...or maybe I don't anymore. To equate the job of a garbage collector, farmer or fisherman with a LEO is, in my opinion, ridiculous. I am not disparaging those or any other professions. But let's get real! I served from the late 70's until the mid 2000's. I know what it is like to feel the hatred and contempt of the very citizens you are there to protect. No farmer, fisherman or garbage collector knows that feeling. Every LEO does. Most retired military do, to some extent, also. It's a free country so feel however you like. I have never met anyone in the military who would care. I sure don't.

And my thanks to you as well, sir. You addressed another point I tried to but didn't find the word you did: Duty. That one little word means SO much... and so few have any concept of even the dictionary definition, much less what it means to feel that duty from within. I'm not a LEO and I never served in the military, the latter being one of my primary regrets in my life, but I've met many people who've told me, "I could never do what you do!" The saddest part is that they're right: They couldn't. Not because of the blood, the long hours, or the tragedies we see.. it's because they don't feel the duty to serve, to make the world a better place, even if you can only do that one patient at a time.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Kutnupe14]

Police officers do indeed have a dangerous job.

Measured by fatalities per 100K, police officers rank in the top ten behind:

Fishermen
Loggers
Pilots
Farmers
Coal Miners
Roofers
Garbage Workers
and
Truck Drivers

The 15 Most Dangerous Jobs In America

Lots of brave folks out there worthy of respect, but in my opinion military folks are in general a cut above.

I've always loved these stats. When was the last time a rouge Tuna or Redwood broke from their respective norms and intentionally tried to kill a fisherman or logger.

I can hear if now, "Tater, you better not go loggin' on the westside of the forest, there's a mean group of evergreens just lookin' to take out a logger"

 

[Blackhawk2001]

We have as a society fetishised the military and such. It comes down to that blind patriotism, that sprung up around 9-11. When it comes down to it, they are just people like you an I, no better or worse. Branding them all as heroes cheapens what a hero is.

the soldier that runs through a volley of bullets to save a person, is a hero. the lucky few soldiers that go sit in an air conditioned trailer by a pond for a few years and then come back are not heroes. (last example is a friend of mine.)



most people that claim 'Merca is the best country in the world as more than likely never been any where else. Their pa told them them merica was the best, and his pa before him and so on and so fourth. its like never have had pie a person goes to a littel shop gets pie tries their first bite and says. "this is the best pie in the world"

I find it frustrating. People in todays society seem to be proud of their ignorance, so proud in fact that to try and reason with them is like telling a wall its really a cloud. It does no one any good. I've never left this country and I will never say its the best nor the worst because honestly I don't know that.


Leo's apply to the same thoughts i have about heroes. however one thing that really pisses me off is this bline hatred people have for them. that whole "Frak the PO PO" BS
people say they hate cops, for busting them when they are breaking the law. Hey dumbass be a good citizen and there wont be problems. You hate the cops? Alright but when SHTF call a hippie not the cops. I have dealt with police a lot. I used to get hassled all the time by them. But, i never lost respect for the badge. There are a few cops who as people i have no respect for, but will still respect the badge they wear.

To call all cops, heroes or scum is intellectually lazy and inherently flawed.


When it comes down to it. People are people, they could be wearing a paper hat, a suit, a tux, a uniform, a badge, a labcoat, or even a mascot costume. We are all people, we are all made of the same stuff, we are all on the same team. We need to do what we can to make life easier for every one.

I don't know what countries you've visited, friend, nor do I know what criteria you use to determine whether or not "Merica" is the best country in the world. I'm not a well-traveled person, but I've been to England, Germany, Japan, South Korea, Kuwait, and Iraq. Some of those countries have things by which to recommend them, but none of them have the range of freedoms we've enjoyed here in this country in my lifetime.

Today's societal respect for the military and LEOs (and firefighters - don't forget them) has largely come from the very well-publicized sacrifices they've made on 9/11/2001 and since, but it's cyclical. If you don't believe me, read Rudyard Kipling.

 

[atvdave]

Something has been swirling around in my grey matter for a while that has really started to irk me.

Why does the general society place such importance on military and LEOs? It is almost as if godhood status has been bestowed on people that have VOLUNTARILY chosen a dangerous profession. It is akin, IMO, to the idiotic idolatry of celebrities. Not any of the above mentioned professions are forced upon a single soul in the USA. We do not have conscription; have not had a draft since the early 1970s; do not force people into jobs that garner the spotlight. These jobs are CHOICES made at the individual level. Pure and simple.

Do not get me wrong. I appreciate most of what military and LEOs do for security purposes. I simply refuse to give them any more credit than "job well done" when it is merited.

Your thoughts?

Well, I can't speak for the LEO's or the other military personal, but I don't want, or need your recognition for what I have done. All I need from you is that you live your live a free as possible, and post anything you wish in a open forum with out fear of reprisal, or punishment, and exercise your rights as a American.

Have a good day sir.

 

[J_Wales]

I've always loved these stats. When was the last time a rouge Tuna or Redwood broke from their respective norms and intentionally tried to kill a fisherman or logger.

I can hear if now, "Tater, you better not go loggin' on the westside of the forest, there's a mean group of evergreens just lookin' to take out a logger"

Yet they have more fatalities.


That said, what is a rouge Sir?

 

[Whosyer]

I've always loved these stats. When was the last time a rouge Tuna or Redwood broke from their respective norms and intentionally tried to kill a fisherman or logger.

I can hear if now, "Tater, you better not go loggin' on the westside of the forest, there's a mean group of evergreens just lookin' to take out a logger"

Rouge Tuna, I think I saw them on a triple bill with Mascara Goldfish and Lipstick Mackeral.
















sorry, I just had to.

 

[sepe]

Something has been swirling around in my grey matter for a while that has really started to irk me.

Why does the general society place such importance on military and LEOs? It is almost as if godhood status has been bestowed on people that have VOLUNTARILY chosen a dangerous profession. It is akin, IMO, to the idiotic idolatry of celebrities. Not any of the above mentioned professions are forced upon a single soul in the USA. We do not have conscription; have not had a draft since the early 1970s; do not force people into jobs that garner the spotlight. These jobs are CHOICES made at the individual level. Pure and simple.

Do not get me wrong. I appreciate most of what military and LEOs do for security purposes. I simply refuse to give them any more credit than "job well done" when it is merited.

Your thoughts?

I don't believe I've met a single veteran that has ever asked for anything special (I've met quite a few, one event I worked had roughly 6,000 people camping and 10,000-15,000 coming in during the day over the course of the weekend...didn't talk to all but an easy 3,000 and I've been to that event growing up and met many others during the 3 or 4 years I attended) but they always felt appreciated even with a simple handshake and a thanks for your service. This was from WW2 through some that hadn't been home too long (last year I went was 2004-ish). Never met one that volunteered that did so for the spotlight. I've read that 2/3 that served in Vietnam were volunteers. Those that I've spoken to that volunteered did so because they felt that it was the right thing to do, even knowing the risks. I don't know of a single friend or family member of mine that has been in the service or is currently joined because they wanted "godlike" status. One joined shortly after graduating from high school because it was the career that he'd wanted since he was young. Another joined for money for college. Another joined because he'd been laid off and wasn't finding decent work. He wanted to be able to support his daughter.

*I'm not saying that there aren't some veterans that do seek special treatment, just haven't ever spoken to one personally.

This.

I can't stand the "veterans" that have never met someone that they didn't tell their veteran status to in their first minute of conversation. I served and my service no more makes up who I am than anything else I've done in my life. I don't have vet or service plates or stickers all over my car. I don't wear vet or service clothing. I don't understand the need to make your service known to the world.

It has been my experience that the real combat vets I've talked to, they don't advertise and usually won't talk about it. Those who blather on about their experiences unsolicited are usually full of it.

I've met many that you could tell were quite a bit less than honest with stories they'd go into, some that would tell when and where but no details, and many that would say that they just did what they had to do. The ones that shared some stories without going into great detail were never pushed for anything and had usually said what they did while either telling stories about some equipment, weapon, or if asked about a patch or t-shirt they were wearing. Also had a guy that would tell you many disturbing stories from the many different times on leave over his career. Funny guy that had a thing for plumpers and seemed to still love this midget he met somewhere in Europe.

^^^^ these were all at different veterans functions

I've met quite a few that brought it up within 5 minutes of a conversation. Seems I attract it in public, from Walmart, gas stations, gun shops.