AAR: ACT Low Light 3Dec11

[lovemachine]

I just got home. I'm heading to bed. And I'll type out my thoughts tomorrow.

Shooting in the dark makes me exhausted!!
-----------------

Ok. Shooting in the dark is a whole different PITA compared to shooting in the day.
After rhino going over different lights, weapon mounted lights, pros and cons on handheld vs weapon mounted lights. Different positions to hold your light.

We all went outside to shoot. First thing was to shoot with just your dominant hand. I quickly found out I suck at this. But I feel toward the end of class I got a little better. I was starting to hit the target a lot more than missing it...

Trying to hold a light, AND shoot, is quite difficult. And when you add movement, reloading, trying to concentrate on that front sight, well, for me, it was a lot to take in all at once.

But I found once I start taking my time to identify the target, slow down so I can concentrate on the target, the fundamentals started kicking in, and I felt I became more accurate.

What I took away from the class:

I had 2 malfunctions with my M&P9c. Both times it "stove-piped". I have no idea why. I was shooting Federal and Winchester factory rounds. So I'm not sure it's ammo related. But, performing all those malfunction drills in every single class I have ever took with ACT, helped. I was able to do the malfunction drill in the dark, and not being able to see a thing, while my light was dangling on my arm, pretty good. I was a little mad it even happened, but I'm also glad it happened. I feel confident to know that when it happens in a gunfight, I can fix a malfunction without looking at my gun, and rather quickly.

Drawing and holstering your gun with a coat and cover garment is hard to do. I was fighting with my coat, and also afraid of my shirt getting caught in the trigger while I holstered my gun.
I am seriously thinking of changing the way I dress and/or carry

Since I also have a Streamlight TLR3 in my safe, I'm thinking of carrying it on my gun now. I am very unsure of this though...
I also need to do a lot more training with shooting 1-handed. This is something where I can now see that every one who carries, should be able to shoot 1-handed.

My thanks again to the guys of ACT. You guys put on great classes. I always learn something new from you. And I'm thankful to walk away from every class that much of a better shooter.

 

[ATM]

Running behind a car makes me exhausted.

 

[MTC]

Running behind a car makes me exhausted.

Now ya done it.

[STRIKE]Confucius[/STRIKE] ATM say:

Man who run in front of car get tired.

Man who run behind car get exhausted.

Man who drive like hell, bound to get there.

Man who walk through airport turnstile sideways going to Bangkok.

Man who stand on toilet is high on pot.

Man who live in glass house should change clothes in basement.

Man who sit on tack get point!

Man stuck in pantry have ass in jam.

Foolish man give wife grand piano, wise man give wife upright organ.

Wife who put husband in doghouse soon find him in cat house.

 

[downrange72]

Had a great time last night. I learned some lessons.

1. I need to take DP classes. I made some serious errors all night. I knew better, but I have not been working on breaking bad habits and it showed.

2. I still do not shoot well strong handed with the flashlight. At the end of the night, I had an 'AHA' moment but it was time for the AAR.

3. What was comfortable for me this year was different than last year. Top of the head hold lit the sights much better than the neck hold for me.

4. Harries technique still is not effective for me. It much resembles a primate having intimate relations with a football.

5. Reloading with a flashlight in your hand is still difficult. I went to flip the flashlight off my thumb and threw the mag instead

6. I saw some flashlights that maybe a solution to the strong hand shooting weak hand flashlight technique.

7. I envy those that are able to use a laser and use it effectively. I get distracted to easily

8. I need to shoot the carry gun more than I do. Trigger resets and pulls are different between my M&P's and XD's. I am either going to have to change from an XD to an M&P for carry or just flat out shoot the XD more.

9. It was an absolutely fabulous night. I was glad to see Lovemachine made it even though there was a threat of rain.

10. I saw BWFrame get nervous when parts of the female anatomy were brought up for discussion by a woman

11. It was also neat to see Chuck Bieber use his dance skills for practical purposes in the figure 8 drill. It did kind of rip off Flo-Rida by his "get lo" technique. . We also learned that rip rap is not kind to the stars knee.

12. Joe redeemed himself well after last years lateral movement drill. He also showed us a dainty version of the New York Reload. I don't think he wanted to scratch his precious Glock

All my criticism goes to myself. I had intentions of getting a little range time in prior to the class. With road construction and a KFC stop for BWFrame and myself, it didn't end up happening.

Joe, John, Coach did an excellent job of instructing all night. I will be taking DP201 again and hopefully get some other instruction to improve my defensive handgun skills.

Great class, Great fun!

 

[lovemachine]

It was an absolutely fabulous night. I was glad to see Lovemachine made it even though there was a threat of rain.

LOL. What made it worse is that John has NEVER made fun of me before. Never. Until last night. And it happened as soon as I walked into the door...

 

[downrange72]

You have obviously been accepted. Lol

 

[Coach]

Speaking of monkies and footballs. Posting is tough sometimes.

 

[Coach]

Some things that last night reminded me of:
Odds are that a self defense shooting will take place in a low light situation and that will likely mean holding a light and the gun. The ability to shoot one handed is a necessity. Shooting one handed is hard, but it ain't impossible, but it does require practice. Shooting skills and gun handling are perishable skills.

 

[jblomenberg16]

Made it home late last night, despite the state's best efforts to have every road between Seymour and Terre Haute under some form of construction!

This was my first ACT class, as well as the first time I'd ever fired my pistol at night. I had taken a previous class on room clearing and using a flashlight / weapon mounted light, and was really looking forward to putting it all together with live fire drills. I was very pleased with the instruction, and learned a lot over the course of the evening.

A few things that I took away:

• Darkness changes a lot in how your brain processes the situation. While the basic fundamentals of using a handgun are the same, it was something to see how many of us seemed to forget them at first, but then slowly came back to them and shot much better. Also, the addition of a light in the off hand means your brain is doing another task (retaining the light, turining it off, etc.), that for many of us isn't yet drilled enough to be done automatically. I don't remember the exact words that Joe used, but it was the analogy of hopping on one foot, rubbing your tummy, and chewing gum all at the same time.

• The addition of a hand mounted flashlight is a much safer way to scan for threats (as opposed to using the weapon mounted light and pointing the muzzle at non-threats).

• However, the addition of the hand held light does mean manipulations of the gun are going to be different, and sometimes more complicated. One of the first times I reloaded with a light in my weak hand was very clumsy. The light was retained by a lanyard, but as it swung around made it a little more difficult to remove the magazine from my carrier, and then charge the slide.

• At one point in the figure 8, I decided to pitch the hand held and go back to my weapon mounted light, as for me, it was the best compromise in threat scanning / quick elimination of the threat in that situation. I think that emphasizes the value of this type of training. There are many techniques that work well, and it is up to the shooter to find which technique works best for them to solve the problem they have at hand. There most likely isn't just one right way to do it, although there are certainly many wrong ways to approach the situation.

• The final "scenario" was a great way to tie everything together...scanning, identifying, shooting, moving to cover / concealment, shooting from the cover, etc.

My final comments are that I really appreaciated the real time coaching by our instructors. This instant feedback, both what we did well, and where we could improve, really helped drive home some important points. For example, I would not have realized that I looked at my holster during re-holstering in the figure 8 had John not mentioned it.

I'm looking forward to doing more training with ACT, and would highly encourage those that haven't, to do so. I would also highly recommend this class, especially if you have not done any low light work with your defensive weapon.



Now, time to watch some football and clean up my gun. The muzzle and light are quite dirty after last night, which is a good thing! (Oh, and I have a bucket of "little girly brass" to sort through and clean up. )

 

[OneBadV8]

We also learned that rip rap is not kind to the stars knee.

Figures... the last time I got low in the gravel I happen to plant my knee right on a small boulder

I enjoy this class simply for the chance to shoot at night with a light. I took a different light this time than I did last year and I like the fact that it did not have multi modes and only had a momentary on tailcap.

I did notice that I shoot a lot better with my current setup if I can illuminate the target but not my gun and shoot using the tritium sights. I think I need to find a flashlight hold/style that will allow me to do this. The Harries technique might do this with more practice but its a bit uncomfortable and the light on the cheek or on top of the head lights up my gun too much I shoot better when my sights are just glowing. I also think a weapon mounted light would work well to accomodate this and it might be something I look into. I could use a handheld light to search and identify threats and switch to the weapon light to "go to work"

Good class and I plan to sign up again next time its offered

 

[jblomenberg16]

Figures... the last time I got low in the gravel I happen to plant my knee right on a small boulder

I enjoy this class simply for the chance to shoot at night with a light. I took a different light this time than I did last year and I like the fact that it did not have multi modes and only had a momentary on tailcap.

I did notice that I shoot a lot better with my current setup if I can illuminate the target but not my gun and shoot using the tritium sights. I think I need to find a flashlight hold/style that will allow me to do this. The Harries technique might do this with more practice but its a bit uncomfortable and the light on the cheek or on top of the head lights up my gun too much I shoot better when my sights are just glowing. I also think a weapon mounted light would work well to accomodate this and it might be something I look into. I could use a handheld light to search and identify threats and switch to the weapon light to "go to work"

Good class and I plan to sign up again next time its offered

I noticed that I got the better sight picture on my G19 using the weapon light combined wihth my night sights. I'm much more confident that for me, the weapon mounted light + night sights is the best overal combination, with a separate light for searching and initial ID.

Thanks for moving that boulder out of the way...kept the rest of us from tripping on it!

 

[rhino]

Thanks for joining us, all! We had a great group of enthusiastic shooters with excellent attitudes. That all makes our job a lot easier.

As always, I learned some knew things and relearned some important lessons from the past. I always enjoy watching the progress of students, sometimes as the class is happening and over time.

It was good to share the range with all of you!

 

[lovemachine]

I also think a weapon mounted light would work well to accomodate this and it might be something I look into. I could use a handheld light to search and identify threats and switch to the weapon light to "go to work"

I noticed that I got the better sight picture on my G19 using the weapon light combined wihth my night sights. I'm much more confident that for me, the weapon mounted light + night sights is the best overal combination, with a separate light for searching and initial ID.

These are the reasons why I'm thinking of buying a Raven Holster so I can carry a weapon mounted light on my gun.

 

[jblomenberg16]

These are the reasons why I'm thinking of buying a Raven Holster so I can carry a weapon mounted light on my gun.

+1 for the Raven holster. That is what I was using last night. Works great as OWB, but I also carry it IWB from time to time using some belt loops. They also make some "J" hooks that allo you to tuck a shirt in. The larger mouth and stiffer kydex design might help with some of the concers you had about re-holstering last night.

 

[lovemachine]

+1 for the Raven holster. That is what I was using last night. Works great as OWB, but I also carry it IWB from time to time using some belt loops. They also make some "J" hooks that allo you to tuck a shirt in. The larger mouth and stiffer kydex design might help with some of the concers you had about re-holstering last night.

How different is it to holster a gun with a mounted light?

 

[jblomenberg16]

How different is it to holster a gun with a mounted light?

Same technique, just have a wider "mouth" in the holster giving you a bit larger target to hit so to speak.

 

[SmileDocHill]

I have a raven that I use with my M&P regular size 9mm with the light attached and I use it IWB. It works great! The retention is good enough that it works well if I have the light on the gun or not. The ONLY issue I can see is that because the holster is being made to allow the light (tlr1s) to pass in and out there is a space that allows me to see the trigger when I look from above. From the side the trigger guard is covered, I cannot get my finger in there but access is not AS limited as the same holster would be if it were designed without light use.
Lovemachine, I think you are an M&P guy, if so let me know I'll gladly let you see how mine handles (the holster that is).

 

[TwinSix]

Gun+ light holster

You guys might also look into Armordillo concealments... I used mine last night and was great. Quicker turn around time, and a tick cheaper. +1 to Raven though... they have set ths standard.

 

[lovemachine]

Same technique, just have a wider "mouth" in the holster giving you a bit larger target to hit so to speak.

Thanks!

I have a raven that I use with my M&P regular size 9mm with the light attached and I use it IWB. It works great! The retention is good enough that it works well if I have the light on the gun or not. The ONLY issue I can see is that because the holster is being made to allow the light (tlr1s) to pass in and out there is a space that allows me to see the trigger when I look from above. From the side the trigger guard is covered, I cannot get my finger in there but access is not AS limited as the same holster would be if it were designed without light use.
Lovemachine, I think you are an M&P guy, if so let me know I'll gladly let you see how mine handles (the holster that is).

Yep, I carry a m&p 9c now.
And I appreciate that offer. I think I will take you up on that!

 

[ColdSteel223]

This was my first time training with ACT. I am, as Rhino described me, a "Training Junkie". I would not hesitate to retake this class or any offered by ACT. If they had been around when I started my training journey I would probably have a few more dollars in my piggy bank. The dollar value is defiantly there with ACT. The one day class versus a two or three day "big name" makes it less of a financial burden to those seeking proper and safe training. You will receive proper and safe training with ACT.

I had shot night shoots before. It is always very disconcerting. You have to do all of the same stuff AND it is dark AND you have this shiny bright thing in your off hand at the same time. It kind of sucks but that is why we train, you train the hard things so that you are at least familiar with them. Much better to learn what works and what is less than optimal for you on the training range instead of a real deal situation where lives are on the line.

“Owning a handgun doesn’t make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.” Col. Jeff Cooper