AAR: ACT Low Light 3Dec11

[esrice]

and while Harries isn't looking popular so far...it felt most comfortable for me.

Do you favor an Weaver stance/grip? Harries often works better there.

I really would like one of those contraptions that Obijohn had that would allow you to shoot two handed. I haven't been able to find one yet.

I, too, thought the two hand enabling doohickey that Obijohn had looked like it had promise, but I didn't get a chance to play with it. Maybe he'll chime in and tell us who makes it.

If its the same light that he was using last year, I believe its this one: First Light USA

 

[Jeepcrazed]

Do you favor an Weaver stance/grip? Harries often works better there.

Nope. isosceles.

If its the same light that he was using last year, I believe its this one: First Light USA

Thanks. Yes, I think that was one that he had. I believe he had another, as well...but maybe it was just another of the same.

 

[downrange72]

Do you favor an Weaver stance/grip? Harries often works better there.





If its the same light that he was using last year, I believe its this one: First Light USA

When I opened into a semi weaver Stance it helped a little.

It was. First light but not sure if it was liberator. Thanks!

 

[OneBadV8]

oh...and Bwframe...? sorry, if I embarrassed or offended you with some of my comments.

He walked away kind of briskly . You could see him blushing in the dark.

 

[bwframe]

oh...and Bwframe...? sorry, if I embarrassed or offended you with some of my comments.

I am really upset that I had to work now
If bwframe was embarrassed it had to be good

He walked away kind of briskly . You could see him blushing in the dark.

I guess I'm just gonna have to bone up on my boob talk...

 

[ColdSteel223]

bwframe, your not supposed to talk to the boobs.

 

[jblomenberg16]

I was using a Streamlight Polytac LED for my hand heald light, and a TLR-1 weapon mounted light on my G19.

Both worked very well for me in the class. Things I liked about them were simple controls, and that I didn't have to switch through various different "modes" on the light. It was either on, or off.

 

[bwframe]

As far as lights go, I think Chuck got it right. The weapon mounted light is the way to go. Although, I won't be going with one. Way too many things to go wrong with equipment, tactics, switches, wetware, etc.

It comes back to the same basics. You have a gun, you have a light. They are separate but you must coordinate their use in the dark. That is why we train.

 

[lovemachine]

As far as lights go, I think Chuck got it right. The weapon mounted light is the way to go. Although, I won't be going with one. Way too many things to go wrong with equipment, tactics, switches, wetware, etc.

It comes back to the same basics. You have a gun, you have a light. They are separate but you must coordinate their use in the dark. That is why we train.

Wouldn't it be a good idea to have a weapon mounted light as a backup? Such a if you drop your handheld?

I can see using the handheld to identify the threat. Then you draw your gun. If your gun is already out, why worry about breaking the 4 rules, if you already have your gun out to take out the threat?

 

[downrange72]

I guess I'm just gonna have to bone up on my boob talk...

Anyone going to run with this comment?

 

[bwframe]

Wouldn't it be a good idea to have a weapon mounted light as a backup? ...

Not for me. I don't want to badmouth anyone who chooses to. However;

When the SHTF, are you really gonna use your handheld when there is a light on your gun? Really?

How well does one draw with the extra mass on the gun?

After a slower more cumbersome draw, how does the hand to hand fight go with that handle for the BG to hold on to?

What fingers are you using to run the light? Same ones that will run the gun?

If you become dependent on the gun light, what happens when it doesn't turn on?

How is a judge and jury gonna react to your "wannabe, SWAT, operator, mall ninja, Rambo" gun setup in court?

 

[jblomenberg16]

Fair points. As someone who did like the weapon mounted light (felt it was the best overall solution for me based on my limited use and experience), I would offer a few counterpoints in blue in the spirit of the good healthy debate that is on-going. Likewise, I won't bad mouth someone that decides against a weapon mounted light, as there are several good reasons to have a hand held.

I will offer an addition "+" for the weaponlight in that most are able to be operated 1 handed, which could be an advantage if you are injured or otherwise don't have the use of the other hand in the situation.

When the SHTF, are you really gonna use your handheld when there is a light on your gun? Really? Probably not. I noticed that about 1/2 way through the figure 8 drill I had ditched the hand held and was using the weapon light. Less things for me to keep track of and try to manipulate under stress. I'm almost certain that if the SHTF right now, I would be using the weaponlight nearly exclusively (and not just because all I have with me right now is my G19+TLR1 and the flash light is in the bedroom).

How well does one draw with the extra mass on the gun?

I haven't timed it, but I didn't feel any difference in the speed of my draw, and the extra mass really isn't noticeable to me on my G19 when it is fully loaded at 15+1. Seems to almost help the balance of the gun.

After a slower more cumbersome draw, how does the hand to hand fight go with that handle for the BG to hold on to?

Good point about hand to hand, and something I have been pondering given the excellent AAR on the Flashlight Combatives class. I would be dependent on shooting the BG, or using the pistol as a club.

What fingers are you using to run the light? Same ones that will run the gun?

Left thumb operates the momentary on/off toggle feature, which is just where I need it to be with a two handed thumbs forward grip. Trigger finger can also operate the toggle from the right side with a strong hand only grip or left side with weak side grip. If I am scanning for threads, my finger is off the trigger and along the frame anyway (following 1 of the 4 rules, even though I may be breaking the others by pointing the gun at what I am trying to ID with the light) and could operate the light if needed. I try not to do that though, since I don't want to think I'm turning on the light and "turn on" the trigger, or vice versa.

If you become dependent on the gun light, what happens when it doesn't turn on?

Night sights, and if those fail, then I'm literally in the dark. Good reason for frequent and periodic battery checks and replacements.

How is a judge and jury gonna react to your "wannabe, SWAT, operator, mall ninja, Rambo" gun setup in court?

Nobody knows for sure, but I'll already be using a "Hi Capacity" black pistol that is similar to what Police carry, so I don't think the light will make it any more evil than the prosecution would have already tried to make it.

 

[bwframe]

Fair points. As someone who did like the weapon mounted light (felt it was the best overall solution for me based on my limited use and experience), I would offer a few counterpoints in blue in the spirit of the good healthy debate that is on-going. Likewise, I won't bad mouth someone that decides against a weapon mounted light, as there are several good reasons to have a hand held.

I will offer an addition "+" for the weaponlight in that most are able to be operated 1 handed, which could be an advantage if you are injured or otherwise don't have the use of the other hand in the situation.

Again, please don't take offense. I'm just passing along my simple minded thoughts about my own mannerisms. I put a fair amount of rounds downrange and still hesitate when my gun chokes, having to verbally say "tap, rack, bang."

 

[jblomenberg16]

Again, please don't take offense. I'm just passing along my simple minded thoughts about my own mannerisms. I put a fair amount of rounds downrange and still hesitate when my gun chokes, having to verbally say "tap, rack, bang."

None taken! I think you made really great points, and hopefully combined we're helping answer some questions others may be thinking of asking.

 

[lovemachine]

Not for me. I don't want to badmouth anyone who chooses to. However;

When the SHTF, are you really gonna use your handheld when there is a light on your gun? Really?

How well does one draw with the extra mass on the gun?

After a slower more cumbersome draw, how does the hand to hand fight go with that handle for the BG to hold on to?

What fingers are you using to run the light? Same ones that will run the gun?

If you become dependent on the gun light, what happens when it doesn't turn on?

How is a judge and jury gonna react to your "wannabe, SWAT, operator, mall ninja, Rambo" gun setup in court?

To be honest, you mentioned points that I hadn't even thought of. Very good points, enough to actually have to give it more thought on carrying a weapon mounted light.

One being, I can be lazy. Makes me think if I would even use my handheld if I had that weapon mounted light.....

 

[Coach]

Not for me. I don't want to badmouth anyone who chooses to. However;

When the SHTF, are you really gonna use your handheld when there is a light on your gun? Really?

How well does one draw with the extra mass on the gun?

After a slower more cumbersome draw, how does the hand to hand fight go with that handle for the BG to hold on to?

What fingers are you using to run the light? Same ones that will run the gun?

If you become dependent on the gun light, what happens when it doesn't turn on?

How is a judge and jury gonna react to your "wannabe, SWAT, operator, mall ninja, Rambo" gun setup in court?

These are great questions and good point. My opinion is the weapon mounted light is a much better option most of the time. If I have to shoot for my life I want to do my best shooting. So I opt for two hands on the gun while I am doing it. I am pretty good at SHO but I want both hands on the gun if possible. I think this is the biggest question that over rides nearly everything else.

I have been EDC with the light on the gun 90% of the time for two years. The extra mass is no big deal. I draw and practice a little bit each day.

BG grabbing the light can be shot off.

I operate the light with the weak hand. I can be shooting at the same time if necessary and practical.

Check the light daily and it will come on. If it does not the handheld is the logical place to go.

The judge should be told the light on my gun is so that I can identify the BG 100% not so that I can play SWAT. I want to live and I don't want to shoot someone who does not deserve it.

I am a big fan and I think lots of people are overlooking an obvious solution to many problems of using a gun in low light. Drawbracks the special holster and a little more of a load to carry around.

 

[riverman67]

Not for me. I don't want to badmouth anyone who chooses to. However;

When the SHTF, are you really gonna use your handheld when there is a light on your gun? Really?

How well does one draw with the extra mass on the gun?

After a slower more cumbersome draw, how does the hand to hand fight go with that handle for the BG to hold on to?

What fingers are you using to run the light? Same ones that will run the gun?

If you become dependent on the gun light, what happens when it doesn't turn on?

How is a judge and jury gonna react to your "wannabe, SWAT, operator, mall ninja, Rambo" gun setup in court?

Just tell them the truth BW
1911's with light rails are damned ugly

I like the idea of a handheld light because I can use it to search without covering everything I'm looking at with my muzzle.
The most realistic scenario for using a light for me would be a bump in the night in my own home. I would not want to end up pointing a gun at one of my young adult children skulking in unexpected. My wife would be really pissed if that happened.
Shooting strong hand only is the downside , I hate that damned FBI technique

I forgot to add that if I had a light on the gun I would use it instead of the hand held light forcing the situation above.I need to get a good gun mounted light and work with it in conjunction with my handheld. It just seems like a lot of stuff to remember in a tense situation.

 

[obijohn]

Thanks for posting the link, Evan. Yes, those are both First Light products. The larger one is a Liberator ST, the smaller one is a Tomahawk ST. Both have multi level work light settings, normal high intensity and strobe. I like them both. The Tomahawk is intended as a concealed EDC light, but i find it a bit bulky for that purpose.
I do recommend either or both lights.

 

[rhino]

Lights are good.

 

[TwinSix]

Style of lights

I too like to operate the weapon light with the "support hand", like coach said. I used a 4-7 Quark AA2 light. I had a hard time operating the light with the NON TACTICAL tail cap switch. I would recommend the Tactical Style raised switch. I WILL be purchasing a new switch soon.

I also utilize an Armordillo Concealment Holster. As they were one of the ONLY ones I found that would make a holster for my gun and light combo... An XD40 with a TLR3 light.