AK Safety Reminder

[Kirk Freeman]

Kirk, if you want to make patently false statements and claim that they are true because of "safety", have at it. I have showed you exactly how you are wrong. It is plain as day. You can tell all of the fudd stories you want, but you are still wrong. Jars full of live rounds? Cool, but not at all relevant in regards to you being incorrect. You are not slightly wrong. You are not slightly right. You are wrong.

Incorrect: "You DO need to look back to ensure nothing is stuck to the bolt face." - Wrong. See post #15 in this thread.

Incorrect: "As one holds the charging handle to the rear the round is not in the breech but is stuck to the bolt which is now at the back of the receiver." - See post #15. Also, if the carrier was properly cycled fully rearward, the ejector would have kicked out the round well before the carrier hit the rear trunnion. If not, the rifle would constantly malfunction due to poor ejection, well before the safety check. Now, before you reprimand me on this because I am sure you will, I am not saying that one should assume that all is well "because the rifle ejects properly". I only mention this because you are talking about a super-rare scenario. One should still check after cycling.

Incorrect: "A important item on the safety briefing when training on the AK platform is to inspect the face of the bolt when clearing the weapon as the cartridge can stick to the bolt face and appear to be empty if one merely looks front and not back." - Wrong. See post #15. Please explain how the rifle "appears to be empty" in that photo.

Claims that are clearly and blatantly incorrect are not made correct just because you are making them under the guise of safety.



Absolute nonsense. This is not a quirk that is somehow exclusive to the AK. Some of the stuff you have said make me strongly question your actual firearms experience, particularly with AKs.

Please explain the nuances of this quirk. Both rifles had the carrier moved back 1.2" and it was plain as day that where was a round in both rifles. Heck, I even took the AK photo from a rearward angle just to help your case a bit, but no dice. I did not measure, but I am sure that more of the round was exposed with the AK than it was with the AR. So, do enlighten me on this "fine point".

AK. Carrier moved back 1.2"...

AR. Carrier moved back 1.2"...

Nothing that I wrote was incorrect. You simply embarrassed yourself with your little tantrum.

I am used to INGO fighting me on safety. I expect nothing less.

The AK-47 is one of the most popular platforms in the world. A sticking cartridge is a potential problem with this platform. Learn that it happens and learn the habits to ensure that you are safe around the weapon.

Knowledge is a better gun culture. I wish you clear sights and crisp triggers.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I had no idea that could happen. How obvious is it when it happens?

Not obvious at all if you don't look back at the bolt. I know you have seen this in class. People do the gun store clear and do not use gravity, the sneaky snake round sticks to the bolt face.

You know how it is, people get scope locked on the breech and do not look to see the bolt. They then let go of the charging handle and reload the weapon. The weapon can then cook off or Jethro points it at something he should not and you get blood or property damage or both.

Is it rare? Yes. Can it happen? Yes. Can it happen with other platforms? Sure but more common with crappy ammo in AKs. How do we prevent it? First, be aware of it. Second, look back, and better yet, IMHO, feel around.

The problem is that I am telling people about safety and people do not want to hear about it as, 1. they already know everything, 2. they have never come across it thus it cannot happen.

It's not like I have not been here before.

 

[AdamP123]

Nothing that I wrote was incorrect.

Yes. You are indeed incorrect. Just because there is a video of an AK failing to eject, it changes nothing.

A sticking cartridge is a potential problem with this platform.

It's a problem with any firearm, not just AKs.

You simply embarrassed yourself with your little tantrum.

Disagreeing with some is a tantrum. Interesting.

Learn that it happens and learn the habits to ensure that you are safe around the weapon.

So, are you claiming that I denied that rounds can fail to eject in an AK? OK. Show me where I said that... or I guess you can continue making up points for me that I have never made.

You are the one claiming that an AK takes extra steps for inspection of a safe chamber and I have clearly showed you that AKs do not.

Feeling is a good idea, but the added step of "looking back at the bolt face" is not at all necessary and that has been clearly illustrated for you in this thread. The chamber on an AK is far easier to see than many other popular rifles. Just because you failed to properly instruct your student or your student failed to properly follow your instruction, it does cancel out the laws of physics, space, and time.

 

[hopper68]

We need to change the name of this thread to "Arguing with Kirk to get my 50 post.".

 

[AdamP123]

We need to change the name of this thread to "Arguing with Kirk to get my 50 post.".

Uh oh, we have a 3,836 post badass on our hands...

I think we need to change the name of the thread to "Overthinking and Overcomplicating AK Safety Checks Because it is the Most Unique Rifle on Earth".

 

[KLB]

We need to change the name of this thread to "Arguing with Kirk to get my 50 post.".

Seems like a fine way to do it. You can't argue they are not "quality" posts.

 

[Dimik]

I personally have never had any such issue with my 2 veprs. If it happened to you, it can happen to someone else. Maybe this isn't AK platform specific, but it's never a bad idea to exercise caution, be safe, and check your firearm. I just don't see what the argument is about.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I personally have never had any such issue with my 2 veprs. If it happened to you, it can happen to someone else. Maybe this isn't AK platform specific, but it's never a bad idea to exercise caution, be safe, and check your firearm. I just don't see what the argument is about.

I talked about safety, again.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Oh, and that Uziel Gal on the Galil on the video. I award myself 10 INGO points which rhino will now redeem for .45acp.

 

[IronsKeeper]

Uh oh, we have a 3,836 post badass on our hands...

I think we need to change the name of the thread to "Overthinking and Overcomplicating AK Safety Checks Because it is the Most Unique Rifle on Earth".

Usually after such an argument the antagonist doesn't stick around long when no one else really backs them.. we shall see.

There is also the fact that Kirk appears to be addressing AK handling by the inexperienced. So if they didn't rack the bolt well enough to let the ejector work, this would apply. And your pictures should be taken from a rearward position, as the breech is viewed when holding the firearm- yes? As-is, a novice (as was the student Kirk originally posted about) could certainly miss that round. I have short stroked my AR and been surprised I did- I'm no master, but I've only really worked with that one platform for 6 or 7 years of rifle ownership and I'm confident enough to say I'm competent in operating them.

Anyway, from a novice's perspective, or with a bad round of ammunition, this makes sense. From the outside looking in, you seem to have taken offense due to your own experience and responded as if he personally attacked you.

tl;dr: <-------- me

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

 

[Trapper Jim]

Send it back to Russia and buy American

 

[2A-Hoosier23]

Interesting discussion...I'll remember to make my thread titles as descriptive as possible to avoid any confusion from now on. "AK Safety Reminder" seemed like a totally reasonable title to me, but evidently there are some who prefer to be picky with word choice in title threads, rather than seeing the actual point of the thread, which seems to be the encouraging of generally smart gun safety habits.

Thanks for sharing, Kirk. I, for one, would rather air on the side of too much caution, rather than not enough.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Let's review:

I post a safety event at a famfire session that I am doing for a .gov employee before he goes to Georgia for training before going overseas where, if he encounters firearms, it will likely be an AK.

I describe what happened and how to avoid it from re-occurring.

I admit I was at fault for not pounding in the lesson of checking the bolt face on the AK during the lecture.

I note that we addressed my lack of pounding the lesson by re-doing proper clearing of the AK-47 multiple times.

I thank INGO for reading my post.

AND THEN . . . INGO goes nuts babbling on about press checking and usual Gun Autism and demands that we all acknowledge that there is no safety issue, usually combined with a "meye ryyyeeetttts" or some such nonsense.

Kirk: "Don't point the gun at your head and pull the trigger."

INGO: "You can't tell me what to do! Meye ryyyeeettts!"

Every time I bring up a safety issue, every single time, I am attacked because I tell a truth that some refuse to hear and do not want to acknoledge. I should be used to it after so many years, but . . .

Sorry, dude, it happens. Nasty Third World ammo, dark chambers, altered or failing light, dirty weapons, broken AKs, the fact that there are 60M AKs in the world, all combine to create this potential issue. I raise it so INGO is aware of it. Once they are aware of it, they can move to address it.

I am sorry you are upset that you don't want to admit that this happens. Ignore it at your own peril and the peril that you handle weapons around.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Send it back to Russia and buy American

Bulgaria.

 

[KLB]

Let's review:

I post a safety event at a famfire session that I am doing for a .gov employee before he goes to Georgia for training before going overseas where, if he encounters firearms, it will likely be an AK.

I describe what happened and how to avoid it from re-occurring.

I admit I was at fault for not pounding in the lesson of checking the bolt face on the AK during the lecture.

I note that we addressed my lack of pounding the lesson by re-doing proper clearing of the AK-47 multiple times.

I thank INGO for reading my post.

AND THEN . . . INGO goes nuts babbling on about press checking and usual Gun Autism and demands that we all acknowledge that there is no safety issue, usually combined with a "meye ryyyeeetttts" or some such nonsense.

Kirk: "Don't point the gun at your head and pull the trigger."

INGO: "You can't tell me what to do! Meye ryyyeeettts!"

Every time I bring up a safety issue, every single time, I am attacked because I tell a truth that some refuse to hear and do not want to acknoledge. I should be used to it after so many years, but . . .

Sorry, dude, it happens. Nasty Third World ammo, dark chambers, altered or failing light, dirty weapons, broken AKs, the fact that there are 60M AKs in the world, all combine to create this potential issue. I raise it so INGO is aware of it. Once they are aware of it, they can move to address it.

I am sorry you are upset that you don't want to admit that this happens. Ignore it at your own peril and the peril that you handle weapons around.

Come on Kirk. One person is not "INGO".

 

[AdamP123]

Let's Review:

Kirk and his inexperienced student decided to go to the range.

Kirk failed to teach his student before the range session, failed to properly observe his student during the range session, and also failed to instruct his student while his student was operating a firearm in which he/she had little to no experience,

Kirk's student failed to clear the firearm because Kirk was not properly instructing and observing.

There was a round left in the chamber after the Kirk’s inexperienced student cycled and "cleared" the firearm.

Kirk and his student almost go down range, but Kirk decides to start doing his job and check the firearm for clear before checking the target(s).

Kirk finds a round in the firearm.

Kirk freaks because cook-offs are ALWAYS a problem. He and his student almost walked in front of an AK that was about to have a cook-off round fired after his student shot a string of 20 rounds over a period of three minutes. Close call! Crisis averted.

Kirk improperly teaches his student that cook-offs are ALWAYS a problem.

Because Kirk failed to properly do his job at the range while teaching his inexperienced student, Kirk now believes that an unnecessary step is required to make sure an AK is clear.

Due to his inattentive teaching, Kirk now believes that people need an AK safety reminder. Not a firearms safety reminder, but an AK Safety Reminder, because the AK is apparently more prone to this issue than other firearms.

Due to Kirk’s negligence at the range, Kirk decides to come here and tell INGO forum members that failing to eject is a “quirk of the AK”. Not a quirk of the AR15, MP5, Glock, shotgun, Garand, Scorpion, FAL, Mauser, or any other firearm, but specifically, a “quirk of the AK”. Hmmmmm. Note to self: Kirk has no idea what he’s talking about when it comes to AKs.

I educate Kirk and teach him that this is not a quirk that is specific to the AK, but rather, a potential issue with all firearms. Kirk is shown the bolt face and chamber are no more difficult to observe on an AK than on an AR. He is also shown that it is actually difficult to observe a round attached to the bolt face inside of a dark AK action.

Someone posts a video of a problematic AK that sporadically ejects and Kirk claims victory while falsely claiming that I denied this was a potential issue with AKs, telling me “learn that it happens”. Note to self: Kirk lacks reading comprehension.

Short Summary in a Nutshell: Kirk failed to properly do his job with an inexperienced student and, rather than bearing all of the blame (which he should), he transfers a portion of the blame on to this imaginary “quirk of the AK” that Kirk created in his own mind. Kirk proclaims that, if you do not adhere to his newly-found safety standards, you are negligent.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Come on Kirk. One person is not "INGO".

True, but he is more than pulling his weight in gun autism.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Let's Review:

Kirk and his inexperienced student decided to go to the range.

Kirk failed to teach his student before the range session, failed to properly observe his student during the range session, and also failed to instruct his student while his student was operating a firearm in which he/she had little to no experience,

Kirk's student failed to clear the firearm because Kirk was not properly instructing and observing.

There was a round left in the chamber after the Kirk’s inexperienced student cycled and "cleared" the firearm.

Kirk and his student almost go down range, but Kirk decides to start doing his job and check the firearm for clear before checking the target(s).

Kirk finds a round in the firearm.

Kirk freaks because cook-offs are ALWAYS a problem. He and his student almost walked in front of an AK that was about to have a cook-off round fired after his student shot a string of 20 rounds over a period of three minutes. Close call! Crisis averted.

Kirk improperly teaches his student that cook-offs are ALWAYS a problem.

Because Kirk failed to properly do his job at the range while teaching his inexperienced student, Kirk now believes that an unnecessary step is required to make sure an AK is clear.

Due to his inattentive teaching, Kirk now believes that people need an AK safety reminder. Not a firearms safety reminder, but an AK Safety Reminder, because the AK is apparently more prone to this issue than other firearms.

Due to Kirk’s negligence at the range, Kirk decides to come here and tell INGO forum members that failing to eject is a “quirk of the AK”. Not a quirk of the AR15, MP5, Glock, shotgun, Garand, Scorpion, FAL, Mauser, or any other firearm, but specifically, a “quirk of the AK”. Hmmmmm. Note to self: Kirk has no idea what he’s talking about when it comes to AKs.

I educate Kirk and teach him that this is not a quirk that is specific to the AK, but rather, a potential issue with all firearms. Kirk is shown the bolt face and chamber are no more difficult to observe on an AK than on an AR. He is also shown that it is actually difficult to observe a round attached to the bolt face inside of a dark AK action.

Someone posts a video of a problematic AK that sporadically ejects and Kirk claims victory while falsely claiming that I denied this was a potential issue with AKs, telling me “learn that it happens”. Note to self: Kirk lacks reading comprehension.

Short Summary in a Nutshell: Kirk failed to properly do his job with an inexperienced student and, rather than bearing all of the blame (which he should), he transfers a portion of the blame on to this imaginary “quirk of the AK” that Kirk created in his own mind. Kirk proclaims that, if you do not adhere to his newly-found safety standards, you are negligent.

Dude, relax. You got shown to be a fool. Learn from it.

Now you understand one quirk of the AK. Hang around, I have much more to teach you about the AK and many other weapons, but I am merely a student, attempting to spread the wisdom I have.

 

[deo62]

I've watched this thread from the beginning and I believe it's always safer to error on the side of caution. Personally, I would not want to be at a range with someone that would skip a step just because they believe their firearm to be infallible. Keep up the good work Kirk.

 

[AdamP123]

Dude, relax. You got shown to be a fool. Learn from it.

Now you understand one quirk of the AK. Hang around, I have much more to teach you about the AK and many other weapons, but I am merely a student, attempting to spread the wisdom I have.

Kirk, if you want to blame your errors and your student's errors on a specific "AK quirk" or "AK fine point" that, in reality, are not specific to the AK, but rather, potential issues that exist across all firearms, have at it, dude.