another child killed while dad is cleaning his gun

[Floivanus]

Sadly, Cletus would simply pop in a mag and pull the trigger. And bang it goes.

Better to not design a gun so that the trigger must be pulled for disassembly.

Kinda surprised that nobody has sued Glock over this "feature".

somebody attempted to sue barreta over a 92 not having a magazine safety, gun was found, by a young child, who dropped the magazine and proceded to play cops or some other crap, shot and killed his brother.

Parents tried to sue over no magazine safety

 

[Hatin Since 87]

Sadly, Cletus would simply pop in a mag and pull the trigger. And bang it goes.

Better to not design a gun so that the trigger must be pulled for disassembly.

Kinda surprised that nobody has sued Glock over this "feature".

Suing them for doing what a gun was intended to do? When I have a round in the chamber and pull the trigger I expect it to go boom. When I’m cleaning my gun it’s my responsibility, not the manufacturers responsibility, to make sure it isn’t loaded and pointed in a safe direction. If we blame the manufacturer for people’s stupidity that only gives the antis ammo to use. It was the guys fault, not the guns.

Does a gun you have to pull the trigger to disassemble increase the risk for this? That’s debatable, my opinion, no it doesn’t. If you’re so stupid to aim a gun at your daughters head, loaded or not, you shouldn’t be carrying a gun and the gun did as it was designed. This person was a complete dumbass, no excuse for his actions. I hate the line “I was cleaning it”. Cleaning it or not don’t aim your ****ing gun at somebody!!

 

[Hatin Since 87]

somebody attempted to sue barreta over a 92 not having a magazine safety, gun was found, by a young child, who dropped the magazine and proceded to play cops or some other crap, shot and killed his brother.

Parents tried to sue over no magazine safety

Hopefully they counter sued the parents for their negligence, followed by criminal charges. Idiots

 

[Twangbanger]

The news story says it took place at 10:30pm. This makes me wonder if "Dad" was impaired somehow, alcohol, prescription drugs, too tired and should not have been cleaning the gun at that time...

...This will sound completely judgemental and condescending on my part, I was at the BMV branch closest to my house, Meridian St. just South of Thompson Rd.Looking around at the people there, a cross section of the population, first thing I told my Wife was: "We need to move", aside from that I truly see why Democrats or other "gun grabbing" Politicians want more gun control...

Mm hmm...
​

Since reading this thread, and the linked article..... I searched the subject, and read at least five more 'articles' on various newspaper and TV sites (some in Louisville). Every one says virtually the same thing, almost word-for-word. So, I'm guessing they all just printed what the ISP released to them as case info.

None of them even tell the fathers' age...

…But I am wondering, since we've heard so many of these "accidental discharge while cleaning" tragedies lately..... how many of them were actually 'cleaning' the firearm??? I can't help but believe that some of these are simply mishandling of a loaded handgun by the owner/shooter. I wonder if the ISP report shows there were in fact cleaning materials/tools present when they arrived on scene. I wonder the same thing about other recently reported incidents, as well.

Bingo.

 

[Shadow01]

I note that the article stated “the gun accidentally discharged.” Not to lessen the severity and sadness of this incident, but once again it seems the reporter mistates the obvious. The description should have read “ the gun was fired by an incompetent idiot who had no understanding of the four gun handling safety rules.”

The way it was written, however, supports the theory that guns in and of themselves are bad.

This tends to happen when we as a society don’t demand that our journalists be unbiased and we allow them to project their agenda.

 

[223 Gunner]

Since reading this thread, and the linked article..... I searched the subject, and read at least five more 'articles' on various newspaper and TV sites (some in Louisville). Every one says virtually the same thing, almost word-for-word. So, I'm guessing they all just printed what the ISP released to them as case info.

None of them even tell the fathers' age.

Now please don't accuse me of judgment, as this is not that, and I am NOT referring to just this case in Washington County, Indiana. Certainly this is a tragedy for everyone involved..... and I can't imagine the sorrow in the fathers' heart, having lost his little girl to any circumstances.

But I am wondering, since we've heard so many of these "accidental discharge while cleaning" tragedies lately..... how many of them were actually 'cleaning' the firearm??? I can't help but believe that some of these are simply mishandling of a loaded handgun by the owner/shooter. I wonder if the ISP report shows there were in fact cleaning materials/tools present when they arrived on scene. I wonder the same thing about other recently reported incidents, as well.

I have wanted to know this for years, it does seem that gun accidents get the blanket statement of "I was cleaning my gun and it just went off."

 

[NHT3]

Suing them for doing what a gun was intended to do? When I have a round in the chamber and pull the trigger I expect it to go boom. When I’m cleaning my gun it’s my responsibility, not the manufacturers responsibility, to make sure it isn’t loaded and pointed in a safe direction. If we blame the manufacturer for people’s stupidity that only gives the antis ammo to use. It was the guys fault, not the guns.

Does a gun you have to pull the trigger to disassemble increase the risk for this? That’s debatable, my opinion, no it doesn’t. If you’re so stupid to aim a gun at your daughters head, loaded or not, you shouldn’t be carrying a gun and the gun did as it was designed. This person was a complete dumbass, no excuse for his actions. I hate the line “I was cleaning it”. Cleaning it or not don’t aim your ****ing gun at somebody!!

Thank you, you beat me to it. Rep inbound...
No wonder there's so much conflict in the gun world, we are our own worst enemy. It never fails that someone wants to find fault with a manufacturer in lieu of blaming the responsible party. I expect it from the Antis but it's very discouraging to hear that tripe on this forum.
Gaston Glock (in this particular case) was going on the assumption that any operator of a firearm would have basic knowledge of the weapon. If you aren't intelligent enough to clear a firearm before pulling the trigger then MAYBE you shouldn't have a firearm. Any of us can make a mistake so as a default the next logical thing to do is to make certain it's not pointed in an unsafe direction when you pull the trigger. Like Hatin since 87 said, I expect a boom when I pull the trigger and I would be very disappointed if this doesn't happen. If I'm not mistaken that's the basic concept of a firearm. To head down the rabbit hole of "you have to pull the trigger to disassemble" is just attempting to deflect responsibility in a direction other than where it belongs. It's a tragic and horrible mistake and I'll pray for the family but very simply, the blame lies 100% with the person that pulled the trigger. To suggest anything else insults the intelligence of responsible gun owners and gives the Antis "ammunition".
To use this tragedy as a forum for Glock hate or any negativity towards firearms seems very childish to me.

[FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member / [/FONT]Basic Pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] / RSO[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]"Under pressure, you don't rise to the occasion, you sink to the level of your training. That's why we train so hard" [/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Unnamed Navy Seal[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]“Ego is the reason many men do not shoot competition. They don't want to suck in public” [/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Aron Bright[/FONT]

 

[BehindBlueI's]

But I am wondering, since we've heard so many of these "accidental discharge while cleaning" tragedies lately..... how many of them were actually 'cleaning' the firearm??? I can't help but believe that some of these are simply mishandling of a loaded handgun by the owner/shooter.

Some probably are, but the pulling the trigger to break it down to clean is a common precursor. Generally to clean, and on some occasions demonstrating to a new gun owner (the marginally less blind leading the blind).

Most people don't just sit around fondling guns, so there is usually *some* reason for admin handling prior to the UD in "in the home" scenarios.

 

[GREEN607]

Some probably are, but the pulling the trigger to break it down to clean is a common precursor. Generally to clean, and on some occasions demonstrating to a new gun owner (the marginally less blind leading the blind).

Most people don't just sit around fondling guns, so there is usually *some* reason for admin handling prior to the UD in "in the home" scenarios.

I agree with this much, but I think more often than not..... a gun owner is maybe just removing his pistol from his waistband or holster, and accidently pulls the trigger, in (say) setting it on the coffee table (as an example).......

 

[HoughMade]

Anyone want to speculate about the percentage of times there are cleaning materials present when someone is accidentally shot while "cleaning a gun"?

"I accidentally shot her while playing with the gun" sounds even worse, but is oft times more accurate...

 

[FearAndLoathing]

Not sure how this keeps happening...Follow the 4 rules at all times.

This man will have to live with this for the rest of his life.

 

[JettaKnight]

Anyone want to speculate about the percentage of times there are cleaning materials present when someone is accidentally shot while "cleaning a gun"?

"I accidentally shot her while playing with the gun" sounds even worse, but is oft times more accurate...

Does hand lotion and Kleenex count?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Anyone want to speculate about the percentage of times there are cleaning materials present when someone is accidentally shot while "cleaning a gun"?

"I accidentally shot her while playing with the gun" sounds even worse, but is oft times more accurate...

Pretty routinely, or the factory box. A lot of people store the gun unloaded in the factory box, apparently.

I agree with this much, but I think more often than not..... a gun owner is maybe just removing his pistol from his waistband or holster, and accidently pulls the trigger, in (say) setting it on the coffee table (as an example).......

That happens as well, but usually it will have the magazine still in it in that case. In the heat of the "oh poo" moment, I don't think people are taking the time to stage it. The people who do lie about it come up with some implausible BS because they didn't have time to think before the first responders get there. Beyond the scope of the conversation, but it's why "excited utterances" are usually admissible in court. Stuff you say in the heat of the moment tends to be the truth because your brain is too busy to bother to create a lie.

For self inflicted, it's also *very* common for the off hand or thigh to be the injured body part, consistent with the muzzle being pointed toward the off side of the body like you'd have it pointed it you were lazily clearing the gun. Top of the foot, groin, butt cheek/ strong side thigh is more likely holstering/unholstering accident.

We're not just taking people's word for what happened, although non-felons tend to be truthful, we are looking at corroborating evidence.

 

[Floivanus]

Anyone want to speculate about the percentage of times there are cleaning materials present when someone is accidentally shot while "cleaning a gun"?

"I accidentally shot her while playing with the gun" sounds even worse, but is oft times more accurate...

Personally I don’t get this concept of cleaning guns. On handguns, I clear it, lock the slide back, hit it with a bore brush, lube the rails and call it a day (unless it’s a stainless 1911, then wipe all the carbon off as well)

rifles... if I’m shooting corrosive thru an ak74 it gets hosed off, most of my ‘normal’ stuff gets cleaned every case of ammo or so. My MP5 has about 2k since it was cleaned last

 

[Hatin Since 87]

Personally I don’t get this concept of cleaning guns. On handguns, I clear it, lock the slide back, hit it with a bore brush, lube the rails and call it a day (unless it’s a stainless 1911, then wipe all the carbon off as well)

rifles... if I’m shooting corrosive thru an ak74 it gets hosed off, most of my ‘normal’ stuff gets cleaned every case of ammo or so. My MP5 has about 2k since it was cleaned last

So you stick your bore brush through the front of the barrel, instead of the side where the feed ramp is at?

 

[femurphy77]

Personally I don’t get this concept of cleaning guns. On handguns, I clear it, lock the slide back, hit it with a bore brush, lube the rails and call it a day (unless it’s a stainless 1911, then wipe all the carbon off as well)

rifles... if I’m shooting corrosive thru an ak74 it gets hosed off, most of my ‘normal’ stuff gets cleaned every case of ammo or so. My MP5 has about 2k since it was cleaned last

Dude! That is one HELL of a mag dump!

 

[Floivanus]

So you stick your bore brush through the front of the barrel, instead of the side where the feed ramp is at?

Should have said bore snake, inserted chamber end, pulled thru a few times, whammo all done.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

Should have said bore snake, inserted chamber end, pulled thru a few times, whammo all done.

Lol ok that makes sense. I was trying to mentally picture how you got a bore brush in with the slide locked back,could have got amusing for a sec.

 

[engi-ninja]

There seems to be a lot of "when stupid people demonstrate their stupidity with their guns it reflects badly on the rest of us" going on, and I think it's important to point out that this attitude is a symptom of the extraordinarily pervasive "guns are inherently bad" brainwashing that most of society suffers from. When people do stupid things that result in death using pretty much anything else, we do not have this reaction; we just say, "that guy is a dumbass." When idiot parents lock their kids in hot cars when it's 100 degrees out, we don't say "man, this is what gives car drivers with children a bad name." When people get drunk and kill people in a car crash we don't feel like it reflects poorly on the rest of the world's responsible imbibers of inebriatatory beverages.

Some people are stupid, and other people get hurt because of their stupidity; the inanimate object used to perpetrate said stupidity is irrelevant. People hurt and kill themselves and others all the time with things other than guns, so why is it that anytime it happens with guns, we suddenly get all defensive and feel like it's a bad reflection on the rest of us? I think it's because we've all been subtly affected by the "guns are bad and people who have them are evil" brainwashing, and we're constantly trying to prove to ourselves and everyone else that we're not evil, and when this sort of thing happens, undermines our self imaging.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is, this guy is dumb, but he's no more dumb than anyone else who's child dies because his stupidity, and to make a big deal out of the fact that a gun was involved just gives implicit credence to the whole idea that guns are inherently dangerous.

 

[actaeon277]

There seems to be a lot of "when stupid people demonstrate their stupidity with their guns it reflects badly on the rest of us" going on, and I think it's important to point out that this attitude is a symptom of the extraordinarily pervasive "guns are inherently bad" brainwashing that most of society suffers from. When people do stupid things that result in death using pretty much anything else, we do not have this reaction; we just say, "that guy is a dumbass." When idiot parents lock their kids in hot cars when it's 100 degrees out, we don't say "man, this is what gives car drivers with children a bad name." When people get drunk and kill people in a car crash we don't feel like it reflects poorly on the rest of the world's responsible imbibers of inebriatatory beverages.

Some people are stupid, and other people get hurt because of their stupidity; the inanimate object used to perpetrate said stupidity is irrelevant. People hurt and kill themselves and others all the time with things other than guns, so why is it that anytime it happens with guns, we suddenly get all defensive and feel like it's a bad reflection on the rest of us? I think it's because we've all been subtly affected by the "guns are bad and people who have them are evil" brainwashing, and we're constantly trying to prove to ourselves and everyone else that we're not evil, and when this sort of thing happens, undermines our self imaging.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is, this guy is dumb, but he's no more dumb than anyone else who's child dies because his stupidity, and to make a big deal out of the fact that a gun was involved just gives implicit credence to the whole idea that guns are inherently dangerous.

Though I'd like to add, when you bring that up to people, they say "that's different".
No.
It's NOT different.