Anti-Vax 'Oops!'

[Punkinhead]

That is exactly what it is. Questioning things is what science is all about. Trying to stop people from doing so is denying science, not the other way around.

A strong consensus does not make anything fact. Nevermore had some great examples. Another one was the Earth is flat.

You can keep telling yourself that anyone that doesn't believe like you is just denying science, but that doesn't mean they are anymore than any of the other nonsensical things that have been believed through the history of man.

It's not belief that counts. This isn't religion. You or I agreeing with or denying a scientific finding doesn't really matter. What matters is what scientists who are experts in the field believe after reading and comprehending the technical literature on the subject. And, yes, the scientific community can get things wrong. But when they do it gets corrected by other scientists - not by TV political commentators with a degree in art history.

We've got this snowflake culture where we think everyone's opinion is equally valid. The opinion of a high school drop out who listens to an opiod addict on AM radio every day is just as valid as someone with a PhD on the subject. A Hollywood starlet's opinion on vaccines is every bit as valid as a trained physician. BigBoxaJunk has it right - people form opinions on scientific subjects based on whether or not it fits their political echo chamber, not whether or not it's true.

 

[rhino]

Vaccinated people don't get shingles?
You might want to tell the researchers that.
The ones that said data shows vaccinated people are HALF as likely.

HALF.
Not NONE.

To which shingles vaccine do you refer?

The currently recommended Shingrix vaccine has data showing that it is 97% effective for people 50-69 and 91% for people 70-89.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/shingles/public/shingrix/index.html

 

[rhino]

It's not an attempt to shut anyone down, it's just a factual statement. There's a strong concensus among scientists that climate change is real and vaccines are effective. Denying those things is denying science. I know that there are AM radio show hosts and bloggers that have alternative facts, but like you said, those are "viewpoints", not science.

If you mean that people recognize that the climate is changing, always has, and always will, I agree. That's a no-brainer.

If you're asserting that there exists a "strong concensus [sic] among scientists" that climate change is due to human activity, you are wrong. If you're referring to that tired old "97% of Scientists" meme, you might want to do some reading about the origin of that number. That little survey had so much sampling bias that it's meaningless. The big clue is using the word "consensus" in the context of science. "Consensus" is not part of any legitimate scientific method or analysis.

 

[rhino]

The efficacy and relative safety of vaccines and global climate change are both scientific subjects, but they are mostly argued about in a political realm, by people who get their information from political sources.

Getting your scientific knowledge from political sources is like getting a pizza from a Chinese restaurant. Ask for one and you may get it, but don't be surprised if it has a little squid and soy sauce on it.

Indeed! The text above needed to be quoted for emphasis.

 

[hoosierdoc]

To which shingles vaccine do you refer?

The currently recommended Shingrix vaccine has data showing that it is 97% effective for people 50-69 and 91% for people 70-89.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/shingles/public/shingrix/index.html

I think he meant chicken pox vaccine vs getting immunity from actually getting chicken pox

 

[JeepHammer]

Out of the argument, just clearing something up...

Once you are vaccinated, your body produces anti-bodies that kill invading live virus.
That's an immunity system response.
If you are exposed again, your system recognizes the invader and attacks it immediately.
You don't get infected and reproduce the virus, becoming contagious to others.

'Immunity' comes from the 'Herd'.
If everyone is vaccinated, there is no place for the virus to reproduce, and that's 'Herd Immunity'.
Herd immunity protects the very young until they reach the age they can also be vaccinated and add to the herd immunity.

If you didn't have the vaccine, you are NOT part of the herd immunity, since you carry the live virus.
Live chicken pox reemerging as shingles, for instance, will pass chicken pox to anyone not vaccinated,
Adults passing on viral meningitis to children is another example.

Keep in mind 'Typhoid Mary', just because you aren't symptomatic doesn't mean you aren't a live, active virus carrier, and capable of passing the virus/infection on to anyone you have contact with. Doesn't matter if you are non-symptomatic.
YOU ARE A LOADED GUN FIRING AT EVERYONE YOU COME INTO CONTACT WITH.

Vaccines are body armor for those not vaccinated.
Sometimes a round will get by your armor, like the flu, but it's better to have body armor when so many are cluelessly firing at random at you...

Just ask anyone with Hepatitis exactly WHEN they got infected, and about zero can tell you, or how many people they passed it on to before they became symptomatic or a blood test for something else turned it up...

And there is mononucleosis...
And STDs,
And, and, and...

 

[rhino]

I think he meant chicken pox vaccine vs getting immunity from actually getting chicken pox

Ah!

That makes sense. It's too early to know much about how that vaccine does with respect to shingles down the road since the oldest people who have received it are in their 20s.