Any idea what I might have here?

[Sylvain]

That sure look slike the exzct same gun all right!

Victoire!

From what I understand (and once again I could be wrong) "bis", meaning "the second" in latin and french, is because they gave a second life to that gun by changing the flintlock into a caplock.
We can maybe find more about it with the dates and serial numbers on the gun.
It could be neat to learn if it was issued to any special unit of the military and maybe find out if that gun could have took part in some battles.

There is more informations on that website about this type of guns, I haven't read it yet.

 

[Sylvain]

Can you see if it's a smooth or a rifled barrel?

That will tell you if it's the model 1822T or 1822T Bis.

After more reading and searching I found this page:

http://armesfrancaises.free.fr/pist%20mle%201822T.html

It has all the pictures of the gun, even pictures of the gun taken apart.
And also the whole history of the gun (in french).

Maybe you can look at the picture and try to see if you can find more markings on the guns.
Some might not be visible anymore but the gun has tons of markings because he was built and rebuilt 3 times by the factory and each time they added new markings.

 

[EddieV]

Can you see if it's a smooth or a rifled barrel?

That will tell you if it's the model 1822T or 1822T Bis.

After more reading and searching I found this page:

armement reglementaire francais les armes de poing

It has all the pictures of the gun, even pictures of the gun taken apart.
And also the whole history of the gun (in french).

Maybe you can look at the picture and try to see if you can find more markings on the guns.
Some might not be visible anymore but the gun has tons of markings because he was built and rebuilt 3 times by the factory and each time they added new markings.

The barrel is rifled, it is marked "T Bis" on the top of the barrel just behing the rear sight/nipple. Sadly I don't read french, will have to see if my bable fish translator will work on that page...

 

[Sylvain]

The barrel is rifled, it is marked "T Bis" on the top of the barrel just behing the rear sight/nipple. Sadly I don't read french, will have to see if my bable fish translator will work on that page...

I could translate it for you when I get time.
Basically they are saying that the gun was modified twice after it was made.
First time to change the flintlock into a caplock and then a third time later to add riflling on the barrel to make it the model T Bis.
It was the sidearm of the French cavalry and they also had a Navy model.

 

[Phase2]

And just to give you something to compare to for value:

Collector's Firearms

Nice piece of history.

 

[Tydeeh22]

treee tousand dolla.

 

[EddieV]

I could translate it for you when I get time.
Basically they are saying that the gun was modified twice after it was made.
First time to change the flintlock into a caplock and then a third time later to add riflling on the barrel to make it the model T Bis.
It was the sidearm of the French cavalry and they also had a Navy model.

Thanks, the translator program actually worked! So I am going over that website now.

 

[Sylvain]

Thanks, the translator program actually worked! So I am going over that website now.

I will check if you found anything new in the morning.
For now im going to bed, it's 5:30 am here.
But it was fun looking for those things and it's good if that helped you in any way.

 

[BGDave]

Nipple appears plugged. However, with all blackpowder firearms please make sure a load isn't in it. Not uncommon to find these loaded. Yes, powder holds up for decades.

 

[odie]

I dont know what it is but it is one of the coolest old pistols i have ever seen

 

[Mike H]

Nice find. Being from Vincennes it has my interest. There are local historians here think Mr. Richard Day that might be able to help you out on this.

 

[indiucky]

It kind of looks like a Simon North pistol which was copied off of the French pistols just as our early Springfields (1796, 1840, etc...)were copied off of the 1763 Charleville. The French tended to use steel furniture while Americans and British tended toward brass furniture but we copied the style of the French guns.

That style pistol was used from 1840-1855 roughly and then Samual Colt changed martial pistols forever by getting production up to where both military and civilian contracts could be met.

If the lockplate extends past the drum of the nipple (snicker, snicker) it may have been converted from flintlock. I have an 1840 flintlock Springfield here in the shop that has a lock plate dated 1842 that was converted by Springfield to percussion before the civil war and was captured by the confederates from an arsenal and used in the war. Many don't realize how late flintlocks were used by our military and during the Mexican War (1847) roughly 70% of our muskets used were flintlock. Jeff Davis's Mississippi volunteers and some Texas volunteer units had percussion but most of the regular military carried flintlocks as did all of the Mexican army.

Many gunsmiths used old parts from from other guns to make guns and we now tend to look down our collector noses at "parts" guns but that was actually par for the course in our early history. A very neat piece to be sure. If you ever make it to Clarksville bring it by as I have got a decent reference library here on old martial arms that you are welcome to peruse.

 

[mainjet]

Take it to pawn stars. They will bring in an expert that will probably tell you that it is a fake reproduction made for the movie industry or reenactments.

 

[EddieV]

Nice find. Being from Vincennes it has my interest. There are local historians here think Mr. Richard Day that might be able to help you out on this.

That would be great! I don't suppose you might have his contact info by any chance?

 

[Fullmag]

This has been a very interesting thread to follow, with story to boot.

 

[littletommy]

This has been a very interesting thread to follow, with story to boot.

Exactly what I was thinking! Very cool that we have this level of knowledge here on INGO!

 

[Sylvain]

Exactly what I was thinking! Very cool that we have this level of knowledge here on INGO!

If you are talking about me I just searched stuff on Google and and learn stuff as I read them, and translated them.
You asked me the same thing in the street I would have been really stupid haha.

 

[littletommy]

If you are talking about me I just searched stuff on Google and and learn stuff as I read them, and translated them.
You asked me the same thing in the street I would have been really stupid haha.

Hey, I don't know anyone else who can translate French, so let me have my fun!

 

[Sylvain]

Hey, I don't know anyone else who can translate French, so let me have my fun!

Okay, I can do french/english translations but that's about it.

Just dont think that INGO is full of firearm experts, without our internet access we dont look so smart.

Dont ask me anything firearm related if you see me at the range.Unless I have a smart phone and can go search stuff on Google when you look the other way.

 

[Hoosier8]

The number stamped on the barrel and stock should be the conversion number. So far this looks ligit though copies were made in the 80s. There should be French proof marks above the number stamped on the barrel.