Are LTCHs ever checked @ the range?

[rimfire_crazed]

This whole thread would be moot if more of us would just follow the advice of a famous INGO poster/lawyer. "Get the stupid license"

 

[ATM]

This whole thread would be moot if more of us would just follow the advice of a famous INGO poster/lawyer. "Get the stupid license"

I believe that the only reason the poorly written and overly restrictive Indiana handgun codes have not been challenged with more outrage by the gun-owning community is simply because the stupid license exempts you from the otherwise ridiculous burdens imposed.

Once you have it (inclusive you meaning most all of us), it's easier to tell everyone else to get the stupid license like you did if they want to avoid being restricted rather than get the stupid restrictions repealed for all.

The fact remains, without the LTCH, Indiana is among the most restrictive states by not even allowing secured transport of a handgun under most circumstances.

To expect people to buy (the license) before they even try (a handgun) or even suggesting that they would know the requirements as "non gun-savvy folks" is letting our own hindsight blind us to the remaining burdensome mess of infringements which we simply don't have to deal with any more.

Yes, get the license

...but I challenge us to accept nothing short of continuing the fight to remove its need by urging our legislators to repeal these "pay to play" infringements from our code.

This thread is only moot if we believe the current state of Indiana code is the way it should be.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Continuing Legal Education. The annual classes that lawyers have to take to keep their license. They must get a certain number of credits each year.

Do you guys get any training on new laws when they go into effect, or refreshers on current laws?

I see. We have to have a certain number of hours of training every year to keep our certifications and the state mandates what topics are covered.

Yes and no, mostly no. I buy the new code book out of my own pocket every year. The laws go into effect in July, but the new book isn't available until October. As far as updates on caselaw the Prosecutor's office puts out updates every once in a while but not nearly as often as they should. Guess I'm going to have to spend less time on INGO and more time on the website that has all the court decisions on it...

 

[Demo]

Pardon me for not knowing- what is a CO?

County officer or something?

 

[Joe Williams]

Conservation officer.

I've only ever in my life met one as a civilian. That was on a public DNR range in PA, and he was being a meanie. Had reason to be. The group he was lowering the "ban hammer" on were trashing the brand new target holders with paintball guns and, much worse, blowing them up with shotguns. He pulled up, saw that, and went mildly insane LOL. Then, the folks argued with him and called him an unpleasant name. THAT was not a smart move. By the time he was done, the range was closed and none of us got to do any more shooting, because we were watching the show.

 

[schafe]

Well, it was, until we all started playing internet lawyers and attracted a lot of LE and DNR attention on our board. The number of reports of DNR CO's checking licenses @dnr properties has skyrocketed since we began this line of discussion over a year ago.

Here's my two cents on this, for what it's worth. To me, it seems kind of presumptuous to assume this. It would be quite a leap of faith to think that this board had that kind of influence on the operations of an organization such as the DNR. My gut tells me that it might have more to do with the amazing increase in handgun ownership and LTCH applications that started near the beginning of the Obama administration. (cause & effect?)
But would that our influence were true! I think I would start out with free sammiches at all the DNR ranges. (Yeah, kinda like Buzz did @ Atterbury this summer!)

 

[sloughfoot]

You guys go onto State of Indiana property with your personally owned firearms to shoot them and you wonder why a representative of the State can check that it is legal for you to do so? Including transport to and away from the State range property? Heck, I'm surprised that the CO didn't run the serial numbers of all the firearms.

If you don't want these kind of hassles, join a private shooting club. Shooting on a private shooting range, that you are a member of, means that you are on your own property.

Things are different in a lot of ways when you are on your own property and behind a locked gate that only other property owners (club members) can open.

 

[eldirector]

You guys go onto State of Indiana property with your personally owned firearms to shoot them and you wonder why a representative of the State can check that it is legal for you to do so? Including transport to and away from the State range property? Heck, I'm surprised that the CO didn't run the serial numbers of all the firearms.

If you don't want these kind of hassles, join a private shooting club. Shooting on a private shooting range, that you are a member of, means that you are on your own property.

Yep, We wonder why someone would get hassled for something that is not restricted by Indiana Code. Let the CO's check for licenses at the door if they are worried about carry.

 

[sloughfoot]

But that is what you are not getting. It IS restricted by Indiana Code when you are not on a private range.

If you come to a range owned by me to shoot, you are OK. If you go to a private range that you own a piece of by being a member, you are OK.

When you go to a range built, owned, and operated by the State of Indiana, the rules change. It is no differentt than walking onto any State property. They set the rules and their Cops enforce them.

 

[sloughfoot]

The Indiana Code:

IC 35-47-2-2
Excepted persons
Sec. 2. Section 1 of this chapter does not apply to:
(1) marshals;
(2) sheriffs;
(3) the commissioner of the department of correction or persons authorized by him in writing to carry firearms;
(4) judicial officers;
(5) law enforcement officers;
(6) members of the armed forces of the United States or of the national guard or organized reserves while they are on duty;
(7) regularly enrolled members of any organization duly authorized to purchase or receive such weapons from the United States or from this state who are at or are going to or from their place of assembly or target practice;
(8) employees of the United States duly authorized to carry handguns;
(9) employees of express companies when engaged in company business;
(10) any person engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms or the agent or representative of any such person having in his possession, using, or carrying a handgun in the usual or ordinary course of that business; or
(11) any person while carrying a handgun unloaded and in a secure wrapper from the place of purchase to his dwelling or fixed place of business, or to a place of repair or back to his dwelling or fixed place of business, or in moving from one dwelling or business to another.

None of this applies to an individual citizen who is not an Indiana or Federal LEO. If you think (7) applies to you shooting a hangun on a DNR, or private range, read it again.

It clearly says that you must be a regularly enrolled member of an organization that can purchase or receive firearms from the US or the State of Indiana. This means a Police Department, or similar.

Being a member of a CMP Club doesn't cut it, being a member of the NRA doesn't cut it, being the member of a Mlitia doesn't cut it. UNLESS any of these organisations can purchase these weapons from the US or from IN. Purchasing rifles from the CMP is not the same as purchasing weapons from the US. The CMP is a private corporation formed by Act of Congress, but you are not purchasing from the US.

And none of us will ever be regularly enrolled members of the CMP. I have shot DCM and CMP matches for years and have never received a membership card because there is no such thing. Flashing my CMP Competitor number will not cause any LEO to back down. (BTW, it is 5850, so what?)

Again, if you don't want to be hassled by the State or its Officers, then stay away from the State, its property, and its Officers. Shoot on private ranges.

Private property still means something. At least I cling to the belief that it does.

 

[MTC]

I believe that the only reason the poorly written and overly restrictive Indiana handgun codes have not been challenged with more outrage by the gun-owning community is simply because the stupid license exempts you from the otherwise ridiculous burdens imposed.

Once you have it (inclusive you meaning most all of us), it's easier to tell everyone else to get the stupid license like you did if they want to avoid being restricted rather than get the stupid restrictions repealed for all.

The fact remains, without the LTCH, Indiana is among the most restrictive states by not even allowing secured transport of a handgun under most circumstances.

To expect people to buy (the license) before they even try (a handgun) or even suggesting that they would know the requirements as "non gun-savvy folks" is letting our own hindsight blind us to the remaining burdensome mess of infringements which we simply don't have to deal with any more.

Yes, get the license

...but I challenge us to accept nothing short of continuing the fight to remove its need by urging our legislators to repeal these "pay to play" infringements from our code.

This thread is only moot if we believe the current state of Indiana code is the way it should be.

Cannot rep you again - or enough.

 

[schafe]

I fail to see any substantial difference between being asked to produce your LTCH while shooting at a DNR range, and being asked to produce your LTCH at the entrance/exit of a private range. While we can argue the likelihood of it happening in each case, last time I looked, It's just as illegal to carry a handgun to a private range without a LTCH, as it is to carry it to a DNR range without one. Hassle quotient for non-licensee in both cases= same(bad). Hassle quotient for licensee in both cases= same(not so bad).
Changing the convoluted laws is a real possibility, but untill that's done, I'm carrying the license, thank you.

 

[pbaker]

So what if someone shooting with you doesn't have an LTCH and they are using your firearms?

I have been researching this for days since the incident happened. From what I have been told from EVERY legal entity I have talked to every person is to have a license in order to have the gun in his possession, including for firing purposes. That being said, we are working with both DNR and NRA to get to the bottom of this fiasco. Ironic thing is that a police officer could do the same thing at any other public range (not just DNR facilities) and yet they choose not to. Why are we a target? Food for thought

 

[Josh Ward]

I have been researching this for days since the incident happened. From what I have been told from EVERY legal entity I have talked to every person is to have a license in order to have the gun in his possession, including for firing purposes. That being said, we are working with both DNR and NRA to get to the bottom of this fiasco. Ironic thing is that a police officer could do the same thing at any other public range (not just DNR facilities) and yet they choose not to. Why are we a target? Food for thought

I ment to ask you what was going on will all this mess yesterday when I was in and then forgot about it......

 

[ATM]

I have been researching this for days since the incident happened. From what I have been told from EVERY legal entity I have talked to every person is to have a license in order to have the gun in his possession, including for firing purposes. That being said, we are working with both DNR and NRA to get to the bottom of this fiasco. Ironic thing is that a police officer could do the same thing at any other public range (not just DNR facilities) and yet they choose not to. Why are we a target? Food for thought

There is a difference between simple possession and exercising dominion as discussed here:

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...-odd_sign_at_wilbur_wright-6.html#post1188063

regarding: No.?49S05-9908-CR-440. - HENDERSON v. STATE - IN Supreme Court

 

[greyhound47]

Once you have it (inclusive you meaning most all of us), it's easier to tell everyone else to get the stupid license like you did if they want to avoid being restricted rather than get the stupid restrictions repealed for all.

.

My wife and I both have lifetime LTCH in Indiana. I shoot often and carry all the time. My wife seldom shoots and NEVER carries a gun. With that said, we got her a lifetime license bc the law is VERY restrictive and if you are an adult you could go to jail for some really simple situations if you do not have the LTCH. For instance, I always carry a gun but what if I need to go in the courthouse, airport, etc, that does not allow them? I leave the gun in the car with my wife. Without the LTCH she would be guilty of possessing a handgun without a license!

We also figured that, God forbid, there is a ever a self-defense shooting in my home that all the adults in the home possessing a LTCH shows positively in liability and criminal cases that might be pressed against us.

All in all, get the lifetime LTCH and stop worrying about it!

 

[greyhound47]

Interesting discussion but I have NEVER been asked for my LTCH or seen anyone else asked in over 23 years of shooting.

 

[paperboy]

I've been checked at the range before

 

[finity]

I was checked a couple of years ago.

I had taken 2 other (non-licensed) people with me to Pigeon River FWA to get them introduced to shooting. We had a CO come up & say "I need to see a license". I showed him mine & he said thanks & left. One of the others had just finished a magazine & still had the gun in hand when the CO walked up. Them not having a LTCH wasn't an issue.

That said, COULD it have been an issue? Maybe, depending on the CO. On a private range I doubt you would have a problem but you still have to have a LTCH to get it there or have someone do it for you who is licensed. But if you give the cops another reason to come to your property & there are shooters without a license they COULD be in (more?) trouble.

 

[OWGEM]

Many years ago I was shooting at the Atterbury range when a CO came along checking for licenses. Only one of the two guys next to me had one and when the other admitted one of the handguns was his it was confiscated.