Are we Totalitarian yet?

[jsharmon7]

So 'lock you up' is the only form of punishment that questioning the official narrative might bring, the only way the government has to control you? Did you skip the vaccine mandates thread? Did you fail to understand the author's words about being deprived of your next job, or tenure, or admission to certain schools for you or a child, or whether a processor will allow your business to use banking services or crowdsource funds or advertise a business?

The death of a thousand cuts still results in death, you know

The title of the thread asks whether we are totalitarian yet. The discussion would seem like it should revolve around yes or no, not arguing the semantics of totalitarianism so as to be able to say 'it's not that bad (yet)'

Which law, currently in effect, is causing those things? My definition of government is creating and enforcing legislation. Maybe that’s not your definition.

 

[BugI02]

Stormed. Hall of power. Slap on wrist. Really?

You and I remember this differently. Very differently.

To the question from the OP, I say we are headed rapidly to tyrannical rule. The current rules enforced upon us are coming directly from one person. Executive Order. Masks, vax, type of engine in our car, the breath we exhale. One might argue that we're not yet totalitarian, but one cannot argue we're more free today than yesterday.

Very well said

 

[BugI02]

Which law, currently in effect, is causing those things? My definition of government is creating and enforcing legislation. Maybe that’s not your definition.

Which laws, currently in effect, are causing the anarchy and lawlessness in parts of America like Portland or Seattle or Chicago or LA or SanFran?

Can government exert control by what it chooses not to enforce, also? Can people not be controlled by what they fear to lose just as much as fear of punishment?

You act like you won't believe it until the Totalitarianism for the People Act officially passes congress and Biden is told to sign it

 

[jsharmon7]

Which laws, currently in effect, are causing the anarchy and lawlessness in parts of America like Portland or Seattle or Chicago or LA or SanFran?

Can government exert control by what it chooses not to enforce, also? Can people not be controlled by what they fear to lose just as much as fear of punishment?

You act like you won't believe it until the Totalitarianism for the People Act officially passes congress and Biden is told to sign it

This actually came up earlier: can government inactivity create totalitarianism? I lean toward “lack of government” not fitting the description. If we take it all the way to no government intervention, I’d be hard-pressed to feel like that fits the description you posted. It’s a problem, but is it totalitarian?

 

[BugI02]

Perhaps this would be easier if you would post up your definition of what is necessary and sufficient for totalitarianism to exist so we can see how well that fits reality

 

[ancjr]

We're in the stage of exhausting the populace's resources in preparation for the time when there is more widespread support among the stupid.

EDIT: I think that's a point of totalitarianism that's being lost. It's not a government that a majority disagrees with. It's a government that the majority stupidly agrees with.

 

[JeepHammer]

Perhaps this would be easier if you would post up your definition of what is necessary and sufficient for totalitarianism to exist so we can see how well that fits reality

There is an actual posted definition of totalitarianism, and you ignored it, substitution for your own which involved socialism.

Pointing out again, we live in a social society, the rules of social societies MUST apply...

Complaining about socialist snow plows, socialist cops, socialist water & sewer utilities is pointless.

That goes for masks during pandemics which is a society health issue.
And once again, confusing a medical issues with 'Totaliaranism' is a lack of education, and anti-social by definition.

The society as a whole is perfectly justified to remove the threat, see all the anti-mask 'Karens' removed, detained, fined, etc.

If you don't like the society, it's a free society, you are free to leave.

 

[ancjr]

There is an actual posted definition of totalitarianism, and you ignored it, substitution for your own which involved socialism.

Pointing out again, we live in a social society, the rules of social societies MUST apply...

Complaining about socialist snow plows, socialist cops, socialist water & sewer utilities is pointless.

That goes for masks during pandemics which is a society health issue.
And once again, confusing a medical issues with 'Totaliaranism' is a lack of education, and anti-social by definition.

The society as a whole is perfectly justified to remove the threat, see all the anti-mask 'Karens' removed, detained, fined, etc.

If you don't like the society, it's a free society, you are free to leave.

I rest my case.

 

[BugI02]

There is an actual posted definition of totalitarianism, and you ignored it, substitution for your own which involved socialism.

Pointing out again, we live in a social society, the rules of social societies MUST apply...

Complaining about socialist snow plows, socialist cops, socialist water & sewer utilities is pointless.

That goes for masks during pandemics which is a society health issue.
And once again, confusing a medical issues with 'Totaliaranism' is a lack of education, and anti-social by definition.

The society as a whole is perfectly justified to remove the threat, see all the anti-mask 'Karens' removed, detained, fined, etc.

If you don't like the society, it's a free society, you are free to leave.

I gonna' bet that exactly no one asked you for your definition of anything

The struggle for relevance is real!

 

[buckwacker]

There is an actual posted definition of totalitarianism, and you ignored it, substitution for your own which involved socialism.

Pointing out again, we live in a social society, the rules of social societies MUST apply...

Complaining about socialist snow plows, socialist cops, socialist water & sewer utilities is pointless.

That goes for masks during pandemics which is a society health issue.
And once again, confusing a medical issues with 'Totaliaranism' is a lack of education, and anti-social by definition.

The society as a whole is perfectly justified to remove the threat, see all the anti-mask 'Karens' removed, detained, fined, etc.

If you don't like the society, it's a free society, you are free to leave.

This choice isn't socialism or anarchy. You should know this.

 

[jsharmon7]

Perhaps this would be easier if you would post up your definition of what is necessary and sufficient for totalitarianism to exist so we can see how well that fits reality

Very similar to what you posted from the dictionary. Significant government control and overreach into our daily lives. Think 1984, or North Korea. I don’t think social pressure is linked to the government. Or what a private employer does in response to beliefs about what the government says they’ll do at a later date. When legislation controls our lives to a significant degree, that would fit my definition.

 

[ancjr]

I posted historic examples from eyewitnesses of totalitarianism.

Ok, I don't know is why I'm asking: Are there historic examples of totalitarian laws?

 

[jsharmon7]

We're in the stage of exhausting the populace's resources in preparation for the time when there is more widespread support among the stupid.

EDIT: I think that's a point of totalitarianism that's being lost. It's not a government that a majority disagrees with. It's a government that the majority stupidly agrees with.

This is an interesting point I missed earlier. Isn’t democracy or a republic supposed to represent the majority? If we think the majority is wrong, does that mean we can overrule them? I bet a lot of folks on the left think this board is full of idiots. Ask the Jeep guy!

 

[ancjr]

This is an interesting point I missed earlier. Isn’t democracy or a republic supposed to represent the majority? If we think the majority is wrong, does that mean we can overrule them? I bet a lot of folks on the left think this board is full of idiots. Ask the Jeep guy!

Republic = nation of laws, not men. We were there, in theory, in the past.

EDIT: As an example, I'm certain LeBron James' opinion holds more sway in politics than my vote does.

 

[jsharmon7]

Republic = nation of laws, not men. We were there, in theory, in the past.

EDIT: As an example, I'm certain LeBron James' opinion holds more sway in politics than my vote does.

The people who write the law represent us, theoretically. So if they pass laws the majority likes, it results in them keeping them in office. So the laws represent the will of the people. Again, in theory.


I think I’m getting away from the point of this thread, so I’ll leave that line of thought alone.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

The people who write the law represent us, theoretically. So if they pass laws the majority likes, it results in them keeping them in office. So the laws represent the will of the people. Again, in theory.

"In theory" being the operative words. "In reality", the people writing the laws pass the laws that their financial contributors like. The laws represent the will of the biggest contributors. Will of the people be damned. That's how we end up with "omninbus bills" filled with so much pork that the original intent of the law is secondary or even tertiary to what ends up in the bills.

 

[jsharmon7]

"In theory" being the operative words. "In reality", the people writing the laws pass the laws that their financial contributors like. The laws represent the will of the biggest contributors. Will of the people be damned. That's how we end up with "omninbus bills" filled with so much pork that the original intent of the law is secondary or even tertiary to what ends up in the bills.

Which has screwed up the whole system. I don’t know how we fix it. Is corruption equivalent to totalitarianism? I don’t think, by itself, that it is. It can go that route, and some of the vaccine mandate threats could send is down that route. Again, not convinced we are quite there yet.

 

[DragonGunner]

And then one day came along in Germany, and some corporal from WWI took leadership......Looked good in the beginning, he even got on the cover of Time magazine as man of the year....people seemed impressed with him. Actually the masses seemed ready and willing for him to show up and follow him right into hell. The huge number of left thinkers in this country (both R and D) should not be takin lightly. If they could load people not of their thinking onto trains they would do it in a heart beat, they just need that one day and that one spark....had a ex pastor tell me the 2A means nothing......sad, thats probably the only thing between that spark and us.....for today anyways.

 

[manifest destiny]

The society as a whole is perfectly justified to remove the threat, see all the anti-mask 'Karens' removed, detained, fined, etc.

Nothing says freedom like removal, detainment and fines.

If you don't like the society, it's a free society, you are free to leave.

Actually, free travel is currently heavily restricted by government edict. Do you have your papers?

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Which has screwed up the whole system. I don’t know how we fix it. Is corruption equivalent to totalitarianism? I don’t think, by itself, that it is. It can go that route, and some of the vaccine mandate threats could send is down that route. Again, not convinced we are quite there yet.

I think legislation that would limit contributions from any individual, corporation, PAC, etc. to $100 for any candidate would help. Or maybe better yet, limit campaign spending to say, $10,000 per candidate per election cycle. Make the candidates go out and beat feet on the pavement if they want to campaign. No (or extremely limited) media coverage and advertising. Do away with lobbying altogether. Make it illegal to lobby lawmakers for anyone. Penalties would be up to loss of the guilty party's business.