As self described Christians, what can we do about the situation in our country?

[kawtech87]

Romans 11:11-36 is a long detailed essay about non Jewish people being grafted into the people of GOD. It also explains some of those who are Jews by birth are broken off.

John 10:16 Jesus states that he has sheep from another sheepfold, that are under him as the great shepherd, pointing to non Jews.

Also Matthew 8 8-12. The Roman soldier meets Jesus and believes. Jesus himself says there will be more gentiles than Jews in heaven.

 

[Hoosierdood]

By this logic, Paul and the apostles were not "God's people" because they were no longer Jews but Christians. Do you believe that only Jewish people are God's people? Are Christians not God's people? Follows of Christ the son of God/God himself are not "God's people"? I'm confused.

To further clarify...

The promise in 2 Chron 7:14 was given specifically to Solomon as he was consecrating the temple that he had built. God appeared to him and made a promise that if He ever sent plagues or disease or drought due to Israel sinning, that if they would repent and turn back to God, he would heal the land (i.e. take away his judgement). This was a promise directly to his people, Israel, and more specifically to Solomon.

The Church is not Israel. We cannot take the promises given directly to Israel and claim them as our own. Now, we can take general principles based on how God deals with his people, but that is not our promise. I hear people take 2 Chron 7:14 out of context and claim it as their own all the time. Stop doing that.

That being said, if we are in Christ, he has given us the spirit of adoption, and we are now children of God. We are His people. But we are still not Israel. Israel rejected their messiah, and so the invitation to enter a relationship with the Father was issued to the Gentiles (Luke 14:15-24). And so believers in Jesus, his death, and resurrection became the New Testament Church - the body of Christ. But we are not Israel, and cannot take the promises given specifically to Israel and apply them to ourselves.

Further, there is a niche group who view America as God's chosen nation, just as Israel was God's chosen people. Thus, they take promises that were made to Israel like 2 Chron 7:14, and they try to apply them to America. Stop doing that too. America is not God's chosen nation. America is not more special in the eyes of God than any other nation. I believe God has blessed us somewhat due to core values that our country was built on. But America is not Israel either.

 

[BigRed]

I think Romans 13 is often misunderstood.

It does not mean Christians have a blanket duty to "render unto Caesar" an unqualified obedience. It does not mean one must bend over for state.

The modern church in America often pushes that view along with "Jesus was socialist", "social justice", and other popular commie bull****,

A couple of books on the matter worth a read:

Amazon product ASIN 146287018X
Amazon product ASIN 1480220086

 

[kawtech87]

To further clarify...

The promise in 2 Chron 7:14 was given specifically to Solomon as he was consecrating the temple that he had built. God appeared to him and made a promise that if He ever sent plagues or disease or drought due to Israel sinning, that if they would repent and turn back to God, he would heal the land (i.e. take away his judgement). This was a promise directly to his people, Israel, and more specifically to Solomon.

The Church is not Israel. We cannot take the promises given directly to Israel and claim them as our own. Now, we can take general principles based on how God deals with his people, but that is not our promise. I hear people take 2 Chron 7:14 out of context and claim it as their own all the time. Stop doing that.

That being said, if we are in Christ, he has given us the spirit of adoption, and we are now children of God. We are His people. But we are still not Israel. Israel rejected their messiah, and so the invitation to enter a relationship with the Father was issued to the Gentiles (Luke 14:15-24). And so believers in Jesus, his death, and resurrection became the New Testament Church - the body of Christ. But we are not Israel, and cannot take the promises given specifically to Israel and apply them to ourselves.

Further, there is a niche group who view America as God's chosen nation, just as Israel was God's chosen people. Thus, they take promises that were made to Israel like 2 Chron 7:14, and they try to apply them to America. Stop doing that too. America is not God's chosen nation. America is not more special in the eyes of God than any other nation. I believe God has blessed us somewhat due to core values that our country was built on. But America is not Israel either.

Brother I think we agree more than we disagree. So I'm going to drop the theology arguments. There is to much of that in the church already and that's why we have so many denominations.

What we really need is unity in the body of Christ. We need to unite and put our message out there again and be unashamed of who we are and what we believe.

 

[Hoosierdood]

Brother I think we agree more than we disagree. So I'm going to drop the theology arguments. There is to much of that in the church already and that's why we have so many denominations.

What we really need is unity in the body of Christ. We need to unite and put our message out there again and be unashamed of who we are and what we believe.

Indeed. I sometimes wonder what Jesus would do if he came back to see all the division in the body of Christ. I think that flipping over tables would be childs play compared to what he would do to us.

But back on topic - how should a Christian respond to the debacle that is our country today?

1. Physical revolt/revolution against government is never condoned in scripture. I admit this is extremely difficult for me to grasp, as I view myself a both a patriot and follower of Jesus. What we do find in scripture is believers drawing on the strength of their faith and the peace of God in times of distress. (lets remember the world they lived in - it wasn't anything close to moral, and definitely not friendly to Christians)

2. Be a catalyst for change. We are commanded to be lights in this world, spreading the good news of Jesus Christ, becoming new creations and sons of God, and growing in grace. Christians are accused in scripture of "turning the world upside down." Bottom line - Jesus intended for His followers to change the world. Get involved in politics, charity work, and giving of yourself.

3. If/when the government commands to do something which directly contradicts scripture - obey God rather than men. So far, as bad as our world is, I can't think of anything that we have been commanded to do that violates scripture. Lots of things in our society that violate God's commands, but nothing that we are being forced to do.

4. Pray for your country, its leaders (even Biden), its people, and especially those who you disagree with. Truly, genuinely love people, especially your enemies. And in this world that is hell-bent on rejecting its Creator and his law, be a light.

 

[Route 45]

Once we control the base, we can forge the future.

Who's "we?" Seems to me that even Christians on INGO can't seem to agree amongst themselves on a wide variety of topics.

From all I've seen and read, actual true, Bible-believing Christians are not numerous enough to forge anything in this country. A (shrinking) majority of Americans identify as "Christian," but it seems to me that this is more of an American cultural artifact than actual "church every Sunday" folks.

U.S. Church Membership Falls Below Majority for First Time

For the first time in Gallup's polling history, less than half of U.S. adults report belonging to a church, synagogue or mosque.

news.gallup.com

"Church membership is strongly correlated with age, as 66% of traditionalists -- U.S. adults born before 1946 -- belong to a church, compared with 58% of baby boomers, 50% of those in Generation X and 36% of millennials. The limited data Gallup has on church membership among the portion of Generation Z that has reached adulthood are so far showing church membership rates similar to those for millennials."

I think the mistake that many on INGO make is believing that conservative viewpoints have to be tied to Christianity. Conservative Christians who want to have a say in the future of this country had better figure out how to advance their worldview with a lot more reason and a lot less "devil's gonna getcha" nonsense. Because the more access to information that people have, the less likely they are to believe that every animal species on Earth lived within walking distance of Noah's house.

The first generation raised by the internet is coming into adulthood. And they are sleeping in on Sunday.

 

[blain]

I think Romans 13 is often misunderstood.

It does not mean Christians have a blanket duty to "render unto Caesar" an unqualified obedience. It does not mean one must bend over for state.

I've always taken the "Render unto Caesar..." as Jesus saying we are still in this world, so we've got obligations to our government/society.
God told Israel that IF they had a king like all the other nations, burdens would be placed on them.
Giving up their children to go to war, pay taxes, etc.
I've never interpreted the words of Jesus as saying the government trumps all, even God's service.

 

[Lpherr]

Pretty sure if you study the original language (see on www.blueletterbible.com) correctly translated, as in the NKJV, it is “You shall not murder."

As for Romans 13, remember that the Bible describes how the government should behave in 1 Peter 2:14:
“Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.”
Many in our government are doing exactly the opposite and so are in rebellion against God. We certainly would not want to obey any rebellious directives of our government.

Thou shall not MURDER

Semantics. The end result is the same...death.
Will it be considered justified? Prepare your response for those that hold your fate, if the slate isn't wiped clean.

 

[BigRed]

Semantics. The end result is the same...death.

It is not mere semantics. The motivation behind murder and killing are completely different.

That is why it is "Thou shall not murder", and not "Thou shall not kill".

If attacked by a thug I dispatch the thug in defense of my life (or the life of another), I have killed the thug. I have not murdered the thug.

 

[Lpherr]

It is not mere semantics. The motivation behind murder and killing are completely different.

That is why it is "Thou shall not murder", and not "Thou shall not kill".

If attacked by a thug I dispatch the thug in defense of my life (or the life of another), I have killed the thug. I have not murdered the thug.

This is not what the thread asked about.

 

[Ziggidy]

Who's "we?" Seems to me that even Christians on INGO can't seem to agree amongst themselves on a wide variety of topics.

From all I've seen and read, actual true, Bible-believing Christians are not numerous enough to forge anything in this country. A (shrinking) majority of Americans identify as "Christian," but it seems to me that this is more of an American cultural artifact than actual "church every Sunday" folks.

U.S. Church Membership Falls Below Majority for First Time

For the first time in Gallup's polling history, less than half of U.S. adults report belonging to a church, synagogue or mosque.

news.gallup.com

"Church membership is strongly correlated with age, as 66% of traditionalists -- U.S. adults born before 1946 -- belong to a church, compared with 58% of baby boomers, 50% of those in Generation X and 36% of millennials. The limited data Gallup has on church membership among the portion of Generation Z that has reached adulthood are so far showing church membership rates similar to those for millennials."

I think the mistake that many on INGO make is believing that conservative viewpoints have to be tied to Christianity. Conservative Christians who want to have a say in the future of this country had better figure out how to advance their worldview with a lot more reason and a lot less "devil's gonna getcha" nonsense. Because the more access to information that people have, the less likely they are to believe that every animal species on Earth lived within walking distance of Noah's house.

The first generation raised by the internet is coming into adulthood. And they are sleeping in on Sunday.

I truly do not care what you think or feel about christians.

You fail to mention my statement “Not allow petty differences separate us from the goal”. It’s crap like this that builds walls even when the goal is the same for all involved.

I don’t care if you pray, don’t care what your stand is on church or church attendance. I care about moving this country in a different direction. Whether or not church attendance is up or down has no value in this equation; so please leave it out.

Now, for believers, we’ll start with prayer. For non-believers, they can do whatever they like as long as we share the same goal for the country. No different from what our founding fathers wanted.

You can either join in or sit on the sidelines and whine about church attendance. Choice is yours.

BTW, the thread title spoke volumes.

 

[Bassat]

As for me and my House, we will follow Jesse Ventura.

 

[DragonGunner]

 

[Route 45]

I truly do not care what you think or feel about christians.

That is why you will fail to change anything. You think you are the majority. You are not. You've heard of RINOs, right? Guess how many CHRINOs there are in America. Plenty of churches with rainbow decor this month.

I don’t care if you pray, don’t care what your stand is on church or church attendance. I care about moving this country in a different direction. Whether or not church attendance is up or down has no value in this equation; so please leave it out.

The whole premise of the thread: As self described Christians, what can we do about the situation in our country?

I think it's relevant to ask whether there are even enough "Christians" who think like the OP (an obvious true believer) to change anything. And if not, what can they do to influence the direction of the country? I guarantee it's not rambling off Bible verses on gun forums.

You can either join in or sit on the sidelines and whine about church attendance. Choice is yours.

Not sure where you see whining. I couldn't care less how many people attend church, other than to point out that less church attendance = less religious influence in politics. I was making a point about a shrinking demographic needing to come up with a better message, if they want to influence anything going forward.

BTW, the thread title spoke volumes.

It's actually kind of vague. I'm assuming that he's talking about recent leftist nuttery, particularly the current "gender" wars, but of course, I can't speak for him. Maybe he will clarify just what he is upset about.

 

[45sRfun]

I think Romans 13 is often misunderstood.

It does not mean Christians have a blanket duty to "render unto Caesar" an unqualified obedience. It does not mean one must bend over for state.

The modern church in America often pushes that view along with "Jesus was socialist", "social justice", and other popular commie bull****,

A couple of books on the matter worth a read:

Amazon product ASIN 146287018X
Amazon product ASIN 1480220086

The books are not showing on my computer, but I will add another good book on the topic of Christians and government:

Establishment and Limits of Civil Government: An Exposition of Romans 13:1-7​

Written in the 1800s. Also have a lot of good articles in their main page: https://americanvision.org/
Might want to browse their book store. I have yet to find a book there that I didn't about 99% agree with.

 

[45sRfun]

3. If/when the government commands to do something which directly contradicts scripture - obey God rather than men. So far, as bad as our world is, I can't think of anything that we have been commanded to do that violates scripture. Lots of things in our society that violate God's commands, but nothing that we are being forced to do.

Masks don't work for the reason government gave when they tried to force us to wear them. My wife and I decided we would not participate in the deception as it would mislead others.

4. Pray for your country, its leaders (even Biden), its people, and especially those who you disagree with. Truly, genuinely love people, especially your enemies. And in this world that is hell-bent on rejecting its Creator and his law, be a light.

True. God could turn Biden around. He turned Saul of Tarsus around and that was a major turnaround. But humanly speaking, the probability of Biden turning around is about zero.

If I pray for Biden, it is not as a leader, though he might be a leader on destroying a nation. Also, he has to be illegitimate--just can't believe the man who got such small turnout for the few rallies (if you can call them that) could actually have beaten the man who draws thousands and held many rallies. Frankly, I pray for the arrest and prosecution of all these corrupt people, also for them to repent (can't wish Hell on anyone) and make restitution (insofar as they can) for the damage they have done. If a man committed a great crime (embezzlement, murder, etc.) and is born again, he cannot remain in the faith and not confess his crime and take the punishment for it, at least knowing that the death penalty is going to do him a good turn (time in prison, not so good).

Also, regarding leaders, I don't know that our founding fathers meant for elected officials to be leaders so much as to simply make sure all is done Constitutionally. Where can they lead us from the Constitution? Nowhere good.

 

[Glock22]

Any one here follow Jonathan Cahn? He’s written several interesting books and also the movie he did that came out last year. It all started with the events of 9-11 with his book and dvd “Isiah 9/10”.

 

[Ziggidy]

It's actually kind of vague. I'm assuming that he's talking about recent leftist nuttery, particularly the current "gender" wars, but of course, I can't speak for him. Maybe he will clarify just what he is upset about.

When one has an agenda it is easy to find vagueness where none exists.

Are you Christian?

 

[Route 45]

When one has an agenda it is easy to find vagueness where none exists.

Are you Christian?

No

 

[Ziggidy]

No

Then you must be trolling