Average Rounds per fight?

[dudley0]

Report to who? As far as I'm aware there's no standardized gathering of this information.

... and then you walked into the room.

Now we will get the info needed in real world scenarios.

 

[rhino]

Report to who? As far as I'm aware there's no standardized gathering of this information.

You'll have to ask him, as I did not press the minutiae of the point during the lecture. I just remember that when he was discussing statistics cited from police reports, he made a point to say that the distance quoted was the distance where the attack ended, not where it started. I'm sure he'd find a discussion welcome and you can also let me know if I misinterpreted what he said! 'Cause sometimes I'm wrong.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

You'll have to ask him, as I did not press the minutiae of the point during the lecture. I just remember that when he was discussing statistics cited from police reports, he made a point to say that the distance quoted was the distance where the attack ended, not where it started. I'm sure he'd find a discussion welcome and you can also let me know if I misinterpreted what he said! 'Cause sometimes I'm wrong.

I'm not saying he's wrong, I just don't know who we're talking about as "they" or what type of report is under discussion. I'm not aware of any UCR/NIBRs reporting that includes distances at either the beginning or end of a confrontation. Most police report narratives don't contain the information. Affidavits might if it's relevant to the charge under consideration, but it's often not. Something that's immediately apparent as a good shoot won't have an affidavit. The near contact shot of the robber in the pawn shop, for example. The initial report will not mention it's a near contact shot, there will be no affidavit because the prosecutor came to the scene and declared it a good shoot before the shooter even gave a statement, and the only publicly available info will not contain any reference to distances. Crime Lab will have scale drawings of where things at the scene are, such as shell casings, that be indicative of distances. Autopsy results might include powder stippling, etc. that would be indicative of how close a shot was fired from, depending.

I feel pretty comfortable in saying there's no standardized way to gather the information nationwide, but there could be some system somewhere for certain departments or state specific reporting requirements. So, in short, I'm just not sure what's under discussion because I don't know who's being reported to or how.

 

[bwframe]

What happens if you actually do get your purse gun out for the 3 x 3 x 3, then on your scan, you discover the second attacker with his Glock x Glock x Glock???

 

[Cameramonkey]

What happens if you actually do get your purse gun out for the 3 x 3 x 3, then on your scan, you discover the second attacker with his Glock x Glock x Glock???

Yeah. And what happens when pissed off Libyans realize you sold them a box full of useless pinball machine parts? Screwed there too.

But the vast majority of incidents are 1 on 1, or 1 on 3-ish, where when the shots start firing, the other 2+ **** themselves and do their best impression of Usain Bolt. Seldom do the accessories steel themselves and return fire to protect their buddy who is running the op. Watching video after video, I'm seeing there is no honor among thieves. They all just want to CYA and do their best to un-ass the AO and live to try to attack some other helpless victim. They dont want a fight, they want a victim.

But yes, it CAN happen. So can a terrorist attack where we really need an AR and a LBV full of mags. But we carry for what most likely will happen, not what could possibly happen in a worst case scenario.

 

[rhino]

I'm not saying he's wrong, I just don't know who we're talking about as "they" or what type of report is under discussion. I'm not aware of any UCR/NIBRs reporting that includes distances at either the beginning or end of a confrontation. Most police report narratives don't contain the information. Affidavits might if it's relevant to the charge under consideration, but it's often not. Something that's immediately apparent as a good shoot won't have an affidavit. The near contact shot of the robber in the pawn shop, for example. The initial report will not mention it's a near contact shot, there will be no affidavit because the prosecutor came to the scene and declared it a good shoot before the shooter even gave a statement, and the only publicly available info will not contain any reference to distances. Crime Lab will have scale drawings of where things at the scene are, such as shell casings, that be indicative of distances. Autopsy results might include powder stippling, etc. that would be indicative of how close a shot was fired from, depending.

I feel pretty comfortable in saying there's no standardized way to gather the information nationwide, but there could be some system somewhere for certain departments or state specific reporting requirements. So, in short, I'm just not sure what's under discussion because I don't know who's being reported to or how.

Thus my suggestion to discuss with him. Your question is a logical response to my claim, so going to the source seems like a reasonable choice.

I think the two of you would have a lot of interesting things to share with each other on related topics.

 

[rhino]

Yeah. And what happens when pissed off Libyans realize you sold them a box full of useless pinball machine parts? Screwed there too.

But the vast majority of incidents are 1 on 1, or 1 on 3-ish, where when the shots start firing, the other 2+ **** themselves and do their best impression of Usain Bolt. Seldom do the accessories steel themselves and return fire to protect their buddy who is running the op. Watching video after video, I'm seeing there is no honor among thieves. They all just want to CYA and do their best to un-ass the AO and live to try to attack some other helpless victim. They dont want a fight, they want a victim.

But yes, it CAN happen. So can a terrorist attack where we really need an AR and a LBV full of mags. But we carry for what most likely will happen, not what could possibly happen in a worst case scenario.

That's inconsistent internally. If you really based your actions in terms of what you carry on what will most likely happen, you wouldn't carry a gun because it's most likely you will never need it.

 

[Trapper Jim]

That's inconsistent internally. If you really based your actions in terms of what you carry on what will most likely happen, you wouldn't carry a gun because it's most likely you will never need it.

Trying to guess what and how the actual fight is going to be is like pinning a tail on the donkey. Sure, it's nice to be ready for anything but whatever you carry be practiced with it. Generally, I carry lower round count bigger bore stuff and that has worked for my lifetime so far. I do however change things up a bit from time to time. If I feel the need for more handgun rounds depending on where I am going, I may carry one of my hi-caps with extra hi-cap mags on me. The bottom line however for me is, the handgun is a CQB vehicle that gets me to the fully loaded long guns if there should ever be an occasion that is outside of the 3-3-3. Recon guns or for pack perps, the long guns available might be an Bushmaster carbine with 200 round available or a 45/70 with 20 rounds available and a 870 with 25 rounds available. Since I shoot and train with all platforms, yes polymer guns too, I still go by my formula of bested and tested equipment first followed by marksmanship, streetwise tactics, and ability driven ongoing training and accessories. There really isn't much left in my old brain for training for an exact scenario that most likely will never happen to me. One of my chuckles is the scenario based walk throughs at every IDPA match. Really, are we supposed to remember when our heart is pounding, our eyes are as big as hubcaps, blood, sweat and rain all about, thoughts of legal problems if I pull this trigger, that whoops, I find myself in one of the scenarios that I shot at a stage 4 and half years ago. Let's see, was this the one that had 3 thugs at a Burger king, or 10 crack heads with TNT vests jumping out of helicopters at the local Bed Bath and Beyond? Sorry, this OKBOOMER will just stay with what I know and do the best I can with whatever I got at the time. The Jackass can pin his own tail.

 

[dudley0]

The near contact shot of the robber in the pawn shop, for example. The initial report will not mention it's a near contact shot, there will be no affidavit because the prosecutor came to the scene and declared it a good shoot before the shooter even gave a statement, and the only publicly available info will not contain any reference to distances.

Was that the one where the employee was "cartoon" sneaking up behind the bad guy before he shot him?

 

[bwframe]

The big question is why do we always guess that the fight will go as we have imagined it?

It's the same OLD story, isn't it? What would you take, if you were invited to a gunfight?...

 

[Coach]

The big question is why do we always guess that the fight will go as we have imagined it?

It's the same OLD story, isn't it? What would you take, if you were invited to a gunfight?...

Skill, mindset, Reliable gun would be my top 3

 

[Vigilant]

The big question is why do we always guess that the fight will go as we have imagined it?

It's the same OLD story, isn't it? What would you take, if you were invited to a gunfight?...

if invited, an infantry platoon with air and artillery support. Since I’m not likely to be invited 3xcept by some random dude on the internet calling for the Boogaloo, I’ll continue to carry what I do daily. It might seem silly to old guys who like low capacity and big bullets and think no one trains because they haven’t trained in their course(which is as likely outdated as their firearms choices), but it works for me, and has for many thousands of training round.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Was that the one where the employee was "cartoon" sneaking up behind the bad guy before he shot him?

Affirm

 

[Route 45]

It's the same OLD story, isn't it? What would you take, if you were invited to a gunfight?...

A pass.

 

[HoughMade]

Maybe this should or has been in another thread but I had a question from a student last week that I do not know the statistics. She asked because her purse gun was limited to 5 rounds and wanted to know. What is the average rounds fired by the defender in an actual legal defense action in Indiana? I googled it of course and there many articles on National figures and the data is always cluttered with criminal defenders that spoils the real answer. Any ideas INGO?​

What does average have to do with anything?

If there are 10 incidents where 2 shots were fired and 1 where 13 were fired, the average shots per incident would be 3.

Now, if you can guarantee me that I will be in the 10 and not the 1...we can talk about carrying only a few rounds.

 

[GIJEW]

Obviously skill, tactics, and mindset, are more important than ammo capacity, but why PLAN to have less? Speaking of snubnose .38s, there are advocates of backup guns in addition to carrying extra ammo.
Yes, having one's EDC match reality and practicality matters (I still can't get my AR or 870 to fit in my IWB holster) but a glock 19 isn't that much bigger than a S&W airweight, and a S&W shield is the same size

 

[Amishman44]

For some reason 3 x 3 x 3 comes to mind.
3 shots
Within around 3’
done in under 3 seconds.
If I’m wrong I’m sure somebody will correct me

As a former Volunteer EMT (24 year experience) my memory says similar to Cameramonkey's response...3 shots at 7' in 3-5 seconds, which is why I'm still comfortable carrying a 5-shot .38 Special in many situations.
Times are changing, as is my EDC choices, but a snub-nosed .38 is still on the list and in the rotation.
Murphy's Law...I have it and am prepared, therefore I'll never need it! Hopefully, that's true and I never do...but stay prepared!

 

[ECS686]

If this was already stated I overlooked it but Tom Givens said it best that as a private citizen if you empty a magazine your gonna make the news and if you reload and go through it your gonna be in the encyclopedia!

And Clint Smith stated he Carrys a spare mag so he can shoot more if he has to or a mechanical malfunction ut the point of shooting is hitting (or something to that effect)

Pretty accurate statements on both

 

[Talonap]

If I buy more than 100 rounds at a time, my wife and I get into a fight. (Not really, but couldn't resist.)

 

[bwframe]

Between the terrorist active shooter and jewelry thief UPS truck hijackers, there have been a lot or rounds shot by bad guys in Florida last week.

Think you'd be OK in the thick of one of those messes with your wheel gun?