Bird shot + Judge = boo-boo

[freekforge]

At 7 yards the only shot i could get to bust a clay was 000. The judge is a useless gun. I can see using a 410 pistol for a boat gun buti wouldnt use a pistol as exspenive as the judge as a boat gun, maybe cobray or something

 

[Bigtanker]

BBI, if you can answer this, was the person wounded a good guy or bad guy?

 

[NKBJ]

The Circuit Judge carbine might be fun with brass 410 shells loaded with FFFg and minies with the bases filled with lube.

 

[indiucky]

This thread reminds me of the Ron White conversation with a Garth Brooks fan...

"Man you just don't get it...He's country AND rock and roll..."

"Right...But by trying to be both he sucks at both...

"You just don't get it man..."

"I know..."


"You all just don't get it....It's a shotgun AND a handgun..."

"Oh we GET it...We just would rather let a handgun be a handgun and a shotgun be a shotgun..."

"It's both.."

"Let me ask you...Is your wife a hermaphrodite?"

"NO WAY MAN....That's just wrong..."

"Exactly."

 

[IndyDave1776]

This thread reminds me of the Ron White conversation with a Garth Brooks fan...

"Man you just don't get it...He's country AND rock and roll..."

"Right...But by trying to be both he sucks at both...

"You just don't get it man..."

"I know..."


"You all just don't get it....It's a shotgun AND a handgun..."

"Oh we GET it...We just would rather let a handgun be a handgun and a shotgun be a shotgun..."

"It's both.."

"Let me ask you...Is your wife a hermaphrodite?"

"NO WAY MAN....That's just wrong..."

"Exactly."

 

[ghitch75]

why a 410 when you can use this...

with the second from the left will stop 4 a 2 legged critters!!!!.....period!!!!

 

[Zoub]

I get the feeling very few people in here have ever killed anything with a .410. Using bird, buck, slug or otherwise. While I can recount truly awesome displays of skills and kills with a Model 42 and even a Saiga, those are shotguns. I know people want to work their way backwards into justifying something like a Judge but it's a compromise gun and master of nothing. You can pick any attribute of these guns, any, and in a true apples to apples comparison it will lose.

If you research the Judge deep enough, you will see documentation from Taurus showing the gun was driven by the Marketing department. You will also see that the rifling in the barrel is a compromise. Why a compromise? Because physics changes for no one, not even the Marketing guys.

Hunting is like painting, your time/labor is your biggest expense, why use substandard materials?

Self defense is an even bigger investment, why use substandard equipment?

The "my wife hates rats, spiders, birds and snakes in the yard or beavers in the boat." If you love her, give her a rake and a compact .380 or 9mm. She will get more kills.

I played this game 40 years ago with the .44mag contender. A 20 gauge double is a better choice, even in a canoe. I have at least 100 .410 slugs sitting around if somebody has the money. Mine are ubersuperdooper man killer slugs........because they are from Russia.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

I like my judge. It really likes the .45 colt brown box "cowboy loads". With buckshot, it gets some penetration, but not what I have come to realize is desirable for a self defense gun.

I used to use it as my house gun, but now that I have more experience with handguns I do not do that anymore.

The Judge is a fun gun, but it only has one practical purpose in my opinion:

[video=youtube;YQIMGV5vtd4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQIMGV5vtd4[/video]

 

[mkin8]

I agree with NoBoater. Stopping the threat is the primary concern. Dead, or unable to pose any further threat is of primary concern. Protecting Yourself & loved ones from harm is what matters.

 

[bwframe]

I agree with NoBoater. Stopping the threat is the primary concern. Dead, or unable to pose any further threat is of primary concern. Protecting Yourself & loved ones from harm is what matters.

Does that justify making a possibly less than adequate tool your primary for self defense?

 

[MickeyBlueEyes]

I thought the Judge was so you could have a snubby 45LC.

 

[ghitch75]

I thought the Judge was so you could have a snubby 45LC.

this is a 45 Colt snubby.....

Ruger® Super Redhawk Alaskan® Double-Action Revolver Models

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I agree with NoBoater. Stopping the threat is the primary concern. Dead, or unable to pose any further threat is of primary concern. Protecting Yourself & loved ones from harm is what matters.

I don't think that concept is in dispute. However if I have a knitting needle and correctly point out that it can be a lethal instrument and how dead is dead...does my knitting needle now assume some place as a reasonable self defense tool?

Odds are, you'll never be attacked in your home. Odds are if you are, the noise and active resistance alone will win the day for you if properly applied. However, you get those benefits with any gun. You also get proven results in the ability to break bone, penetrate heavy clothing/fatty suspects to vital organs, etc. with quality ammunition in proven calibers. Given the scarcity of real world data on pistol length .410 and the simple physics behind lightweight projectiles at low speeds and the effects of sectional density on penetration, you are beta testing with your life on the line when you use it. If you want to test pilot with you and your family, knock yourself out. I will not, but I'll be interested to see if you won or lost and add it to my data.

 

[DRob]

IMO, the Judge is not adequate for self defense with bird shot but that's on the guy who chose the improper loads, not the gun. A Judge stays in the wife's night stand every night loaded with #4 buck and slugs. At the distance of 15-20 feet, where it would likely be used, I think it would do the job. That's based on paper target patterns we've shot. However, it was bought to be used as a rattlesnake gun in the prairie dog towns where it gets #6 shot. And, by they way, shooting dove-size clays at very short range, it is a hoot! I do mean SHORT range though. I toss 'em left handed and shoot 'em right handed. It is what it is. Don't try to make it something it isn't.

 

[knot4reel]

Is a 12ga. short barrel riot shotgun loaded with 00 buck good for a home defense weapon ? Oh wait ( multi projectiles, over penetration ) now what. Anybody out there going to admit to using this set up to defend their home and family. What about that fear inspiring click click sound that would make most bad guys and some commoners shard their pants. Anybody got real statistics on this set up. Come on admit it, don't be worried about the mega posters trying to make you look like an un schooled idiot.

 

[Thor]

My first shotgun that my dad bought me was a .410 bolt action. I would consider it adequate for rabbit at 20'. I would think a .410 Stagecoach gun would be okay for defense in close quarters.

I wouldn't have minded carrying a Judge in CO, TX or CA for snakes but I wouldn't have gone out and bought one for it.

 

[Thor]

Is a 12ga. short barrel riot shotgun loaded with 00 buck good for a home defense weapon ? Oh wait ( multi projectiles, over penetration ) now what. Anybody out there going to admit to using this set up to defend their home and family. What about that fear inspiring click click sound that would make most bad guys and some commoners shard their pants. Anybody got real statistics on this set up. Come on admit it, don't be worried about the mega posters trying to make you look like an un schooled idiot.

Relax Francis. It's called a discussion. I've disagreed with plenty of folks on here, and they've disagreed back. The really insulting ones were before I got 50 posts and insulted their fan boy favorite with humor. Oh, the humanity.

 

[knot4reel]

My first shotgun that my dad bought me was a .410 bolt action. I would consider it adequate for rabbit at 20'. I would think a .410 Stagecoach gun would be okay for defense in close quarters.

I wouldn't have minded carrying a Judge in CO, TX or CA for snakes but I wouldn't have gone out and bought one for it.

Agree on all of this. I didn't buy mine for snakes either. I have a garden hoe that does a great job on them. But dang it, that hoe just isn't much fun on the cans, squash, and gourds that threaten me at times.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Is a 12ga. short barrel riot shotgun loaded with 00 buck good for a home defense weapon ? Oh wait ( multi projectiles, over penetration ) now what. Anybody out there going to admit to using this set up to defend their home and family. What about that fear inspiring click click sound that would make most bad guys and some commoners shard their pants. Anybody got real statistics on this set up. Come on admit it, don't be worried about the mega posters trying to make you look like an un schooled idiot.

While ARs are the new hotness, I still subscribe to the 12g or 20g, depending on the shooter, as the ideal home defense weapon. Overpenetration isn't really a concern with buckshot, but certainly can be with slugs. Quality SD loads are staying put in people in LE shootings. Spread can be a concern, but pattern your own shotgun with your chosen ammo and see for yourself. Federal Flight Control will probably hold a tighter pattern at 15y then you will see from a handgun fired 3x under stress. It's well under fist sized with my 870.

Google DocGKR if you want plenty of real world feedback, but it's primarily from LE shootings.

 

[Zoub]

My first shotgun that my dad bought me was a .410 bolt action. I would consider it adequate for rabbit at 20'. I would think a .410 Stagecoach gun would be okay for defense in close quarters.

I wouldn't have minded carrying a Judge in CO, TX or CA for snakes but I wouldn't have gone out and bought one for it.

With shot:

33 yards on Rabbit.

Through an old washer on a rabbit.

Quail, Pheasant, Dove and squirrel.

Sucks on da ducks.

Slugs for Fox and coons.

In shotgun circles the best description is still this, .410 is for experts. I just add that kids are great shooters until adults get inside their heads with a bunch of what they can't do.

I have old literature and articles that show the debate between marketing and physics in shotguns going back to the late 1800's. It's best to follow physics.