Birdshot then 00 for home defense?

[MCgrease08]

Why? This is a general question to all and not being aurgumentative. But why #4 buckshot? I understand that it will penetrate less and that is an advantage. But in my patterning tests I tend to get more spread and flyers with the #4 then reduced recoil OO. Even a single errant #4 could be lethal. My question though is how does 1500 FPS #4 compare to 1150 FPS OO when it comes to barrier penetration? The #4 certainly has more felt recoil. I am not against the idea of smaller shot and if it patterns good then I say go for it. But with the ready availability of good quality OO what is the advantage of #4?

I'm curious about this too. I hear a lot of tacticool folks recommending #4 buck in YouTube videos. Some from presenters, but mainly in the comments.

 

[2A_Tom]

That is what I was doing. As I said, I was always a 00 guy. Heard several people discussing this and thought I would bring it here to see what INGO thought.

Were then or have you ever been in a gun shop when you heard something like this or that the Lifetime LTCH was going away?

 

[Beemer]

Were then or have you ever been in a gun shop when you heard something like this or that the Lifetime LTCH was going away?

Actually it was two different situations. I am currently building an HD shotgun and was talking about it with an older acquaintance of mine, big gun guy for longer then I have been around. He suggested birdshot because of the wall issue. He admitted that many of his friends preferred 00, but he disagreed. After our discussion I was talking to a couple of the gun salesmen at a pawnshop I used to work for and one of the said his first shot was birdshot, the rest were 00. The other said 00 all the way. So I decided to ask the community because I wanted to research other issues and have found a good solid and helpful knowledge base here.

None of the folks I spoke to discussed the Lifetime LTC issue. Strange you would equate the two. Do you have a link to this information so I may look into it?

 

[2A_Tom]

Just a standing joke here on INGO. I heard From the guy at the LGS.

Some things come up like daffodils.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...-defense/353384-lifetime-ltch-going-away.html

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...005-lifetime-ltch-going-away-bw3-patrons.html

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...d-today-lifetime-ltch-we-know-going-away.html

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry-issues-self-defense/367481-rumor.html

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry-issues-self-defense/231558-question-lifetime-ltch.html

 

[KG1]

I seem to recall someone posting something about a LEO that was getting in some practice using birdshot for whatever reason and somehow forgot to reload with buckshot and ended up on a call where he had to deploy the shotgun on a bad guy.

Needless to say the birdshot wasn’t effective and it didn’t turn out well for the officer.

Anyway that was an offhand recollection of a story that I seem to have a memory of that I thought someone posted. Maybe somebody else recalls that post too.

 

[Kart29]

If you think birdshot is safer because it won't over-penetrate interior walls, why would you expect it to penetrate effectively into a human target? Either it penetrates effectively or it doesn't. Birdshot is not something magical that is stopped by a couple layers of sheetrock but still also acts as a dense mass and makes a deep hole in a person.

I've heard hunters/guides in Canada/Alaska that carry a 12 ga. for grizzly defense normally load a round of birdshot in the chamber and fill the tube with slugs. The first round of birdshot goes into the bruin's face to pepper the eyes and nose. The following slugs go into the body. They may be onto something there.

 

[indiucky]

I'm curious about this too. I hear a lot of tacticool folks recommending #4 buck in YouTube videos. Some from presenters, but mainly in the comments.

I'm not tacticool but I have two loads of number 4 and two loads of 00 Buckshot on the leather shell holder on my coach gun....I like the number 4 because it has more pellets but I think either would do fine....

 

[Spear Dane]

I have always been one for 00 for my HD 12ga. However I have recently had several people argue that it is best to start with a bird shot load and follow with the 00. Any opinions? Thanks in advance.

Do not listen to those people ever again on ANY subject. They are permanently stupid and beyond help.

 

[LARRY1]

shotguns are effective but the best defense i heard was from a guy named karl on tactical riflemen he said he uses a ar 15 in case of a hostage situation, a shotgun would not be the best gun for that!

 

[lonehoosier]

shotguns are effective but the best defense i heard was from a guy named karl on tactical riflemen he said he uses a ar 15 in case of a hostage situation, a shotgun would not be the best gun for that!

I just leave this here

[video=youtube_share;1C5rgtkbDVU]http://youtu.be/1C5rgtkbDVU[/video]

 

[Dead Duck]

shotguns are effective but the best defense i heard was from a guy named karl on tactical riflemen he said he uses a ar 15 in case of a hostage situation, a shotgun would not be the best gun for that!

Not so fast now.
Knowing your guns individual spread pattern at distance and trusting your training, I can guarantee with the same percentages as anyone with an AR of NOT shooting my hostage. Closer the better but that goes with most shots.

When in doubt, shot the hostage in the leg. Then the perps a sitting du.....Goose.

 

[VERT]

Not so fast now.
Knowing your guns individual spread pattern at distance and trusting your training, I can guarantee with the same percentages as anyone with an AR of NOT shooting my hostage. Closer the better but that goes with most shots.

When in doubt, shot the hostage in the leg. Then the perps a sitting du.....Goose.

I know you are joking but I wouldn’t shoot the hostage in the leg with a shotgun. Ok maybe with birdshot.

Most people would be surprised what a shotgun can do with reduced recoil flightcontrol. At in house distances a hostage shot is possible.

 

[2A_Tom]

I would have to jack the slide to eject the 00 and put a slug in the chamber.

 

[AngryRooster]

I know you are joking but I wouldn’t shoot the hostage in the leg with a shotgun. Ok maybe with birdshot.

Most people would be surprised what a shotgun can do with reduced recoil flightcontrol. At in house distances a hostage shot is possible.

Fully agree. I've got the 8 pellet version, it's a hell of a round. Spread is very minimal compared to many loads.

 

[VERT]

I would have to jack the slide to eject the 00 and put a slug in the chamber.

That might be an option as well. It is really about context. How is the shotgun being used. Slugs serve their purpose, one of which is they don’t spread. But tight patterning buckshot may be an option as well.

 

[Ruger_Ronin]

+1 for federal 00 buck 9 pellet tactical rds. Nasty stuff. Holds a reasonably tight pattern at increased range (for a 12ga). Have done some comparisons and this is my favorite HD load so far.

Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk

 

[lonehoosier]

I always get a chuckle out of it when someone posts that they didn’t use it because it’s to tight of a group. Once those little balls enter the body they don’t hold that tight group.

 

[nipprdog]

Do not listen to those people ever again on ANY subject. They are permanently stupid and beyond help.

Bingo.

 

[lovemywoods]

I dug up an old thread where I patterned several types of "00" buckshot. Note the Federal FliteControl patterns at 25 yards.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...-testing-pattern-various-brands-buckshot.html

 

[MCgrease08]

I dug up an old thread where I patterned several types of "00" buckshot. Note the Federal FliteControl patterns at 25 yards.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...-testing-pattern-various-brands-buckshot.html

Nice test and photos. I patterned my HD shotgun recently, but my camera on my phone sucks so I have a lot fewer pictures.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...re-can-i-pattern-shotgun-central-indiana.html
Personally I don't like the lower recoil or flight control loads because the groups are too tight at close range. Granted, they would do serious damage when you hit with them, but a sub 2" group at 7-10 yds still makes it real possible to miss a moving target. I want something that will give a nice 4-6" spread at 15 yards, but that's just me. If I had more time running the gun I might feel more confident with tighter groups.