Black man shot in Kenosha, riots starting all over again...

[Hatin Since 87]

Just watched the video again (several times). I still think he made a furtive move just after opening the door but I can't say it's conclusive. Hard to tell if he made the move or was being pushed (or falling) forward.

Ya I was trying to figure that out too. I wish they’d just release the information, we know they have all the info they’re just letting the city burn down before releasing anything. Every time I see a video like this it makes me glad I’m not in law enforcement. Those are tough judgements to make in a split second

 

[Clay Pigeon]

Law Enforcement in the United States should at minimum go by The Rule of Armed Conflict that our troops have to use. Just something about shooting citizens while leaving / or running away should be a problem.

 

[Bigtanker]

 

[Alpo]

I was thinking along the same lines, CP.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

Wyatt Earps of today dont have to wait for the bad guy to draw or shoot first.

Not arguing, so please don’t think that, just genuinely curious about this part. What is the guidelines for an officer to use deadly force?


Again, please don’t take that wrong. I’m not arguing or disagreeing... just honestly curious, I always read that deadly force could only be used in situations where a weapon was present, or an unarmed attack that was likely to end in death or serious injury.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

Uh oh. We have attracted the attention of the mods. I’m disappearing to the shadows to read the thread without replying

 

[churchmouse]

Hey man that's my emoji.....

 

[Libertarian01]

I just watched this video a few minutes ago and must say my kneejerk reaction is that it looks bad for the officer(s?) that shot him.

However, without full context of the events leading up to the shooting it is impossible to tell what had occurred. That said, I must believe that if they truly wanted him to stop other measures of less lethal force should have been used. Taser doesn't work? Try again, or several of the officers restrain him. However, in the heat of the moment with only seconds to analyze events transpiring before the officers what should happen and what does happen can differ greatly without any malice intended.

We need more data.

Regards,

Doug

PS - I hope all goes as well as it can for all parties and their families involved.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Not arguing, so please don’t think that, just genuinely curious about this part. What is the guidelines for an officer to use deadly force?


Again, please don’t take that wrong. I’m not arguing or disagreeing... just honestly curious, I always read that deadly force could only be used in situations where a weapon was present, or an unarmed attack that was likely to end in death or serious injury.

Not taken that way. But seems many want a cop to wait until he has been fired on first. Because apparently furtive movements toward a weapon, or sometimes where one is assumed to be (what good reason does a person have, while repeatedly being ordered to stop, to reach into a bag, vehicle, etc.?)

Hell, even when a cop sees a gun and shoots first, they are often vilified because they didnt wait to see what the perp was going to do with it first. (he didnt have to shoot my cousin! He was turning his life around! He could have talked to him and asked him to pretty please with sugar on top to put it down first.)

 

[Gluemanz28]

I have to go to Lancaster, WI tomorrow for work.

Hmm should I take 90 along the lake, 290/294 loop or stay on 80 to Davenport. Me thinks Davenport is the way to go.

 

[bobzilla]

Ok.... I’ll try again. Asked on page one. What was the blocky black item that falls to the ground as he opens the door and shots were fired? Anyone notice it Ike are we too busy picking sides to look at what little evidence we have?

 

[Hatin Since 87]

Not taken that way. But seems many want a cop to wait until he has been fired on first. Because apparently furtive movements toward a weapon, or sometimes where one is assumed to be (what good reason does a person have, while repeatedly being ordered to stop, to reach into a bag, vehicle, etc.?)

Hell, even when a cop sees a gun and shoots first, they are often vilified because they didnt wait to see what the perp was going to do with it first. (he didnt have to shoot my cousin! He was turning his life around! He could have talked to him and asked him to pretty please with sugar on top to put it down first.)

Thanks for the reply. A lot of good points also, seems I remember a couple years ago people were mad that cops in Indy shot someone that robbed a gas station with a bb pistol... and people were livid that it wasn’t a real firearm and he was killed. That’s just stupid, he knew it resembled a real deadly threat, that’s why he used it to rob the store. I agree with the point about reaching into the vehicle/bag/etc. It’s just hard for me to say that and that alone should be justification to use deadly force, if nothing happened beforehand to lead to the assumption he was going for a weapon.

And thanks for not taking my question the wrong way... I know sometimes through text it’s hard to tell intentions and demeanor.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

Uh oh. We have attracted the attention of the mods. I’m disappearing to the shadows to read the thread without replying

oops. Back to my shadows.

 

[KellyinAvon]

I have to go to Lancaster, WI tomorrow for work.

Hmm should I take 90 along the lake, 290/294 loop or stay on 80 to Davenport. Me thinks Davenport is the way to go.

Went to LA via Omaha?

 

[Alpo]

Ok.... I’ll try again. Asked on page one. What was the blocky black item that falls to the ground as he opens the door and shots were fired? Anyone notice it Ike are we too busy picking sides to look at what little evidence we have?

There was an item on the ground that was kicked to a new position during activity in the door area. Is that what you are seeing?

 

[Cameramonkey]

Thanks for the reply. A lot of good points also, seems I remember a couple years ago people were mad that cops in Indy shot someone that robbed a gas station with a bb pistol... and people were livid that it wasn’t a real firearm and he was killed. That’s just stupid, he knew it resembled a real deadly threat, that’s why he used it to rob the store. I agree with the point about reaching into the vehicle/bag/etc. It’s just hard for me to say that and that alone should be justification to use deadly force, if nothing happened beforehand to lead to the assumption he was going for a weapon.

And thanks for not taking my question the wrong way... I know sometimes through text it’s hard to tell intentions and demeanor.

But he could have shot the cop's eye out!

So I'll ask. What good reason does one have to ignore officer orders and continue to reach? What is so important in a way that will help the civilian (who is already repeatedly disregarding orders and failing to communicate appropriate intentions) that he needs to continue to ignore cops and keep on reaching?

Have these guys never seen what happens to people in their position? This isnt exactly something new.

 

[Route 45]

Ok.... I’ll try again. Asked on page one. What was the blocky black item that falls to the ground as he opens the door and shots were fired? Anyone notice it Ike are we too busy picking sides to look at what little evidence we have?

The black object on the ground looks like it may be a handgun. (Block 19?) Anyway, it is on the ground before the guy gets around to the driver's door. Maybe it is a handgun and the officer thought he was bending over to get it, which it does look like he may have been doing. But too much cannot be seen, and you'd think the police would have made a statement by now if it was indeed a handgun.

 

[hoosierdoc]

Nope, and to be clear I’m not saying the officer is in the wrong. I’m just saying if there was no weapon anywhere to be found, this wasn’t a good shoot. I don’t know all the facts so will not say if it was a good shoot or wasn’t, all I’m arguing is the fact disobeying an order in itself shouldn’t be enough to use deadly force. Disobeying an order while a weapon is present is. There’s a huge difference in the 2.

what if the guy said he was going for a weapon? I have heard that claim. the fact it wasn't there doesn't matter if he claimed it was

 

[qwerty]

https://racinecountyeye.com/police-k9-dozer-helps-subdue-man-who-pulled-gun-at-bar/

 

[bobzilla]

That’s the one. Watched it a few times and never noticed it before they got there. It does get moved in the action. Gotta pay more attention