Boy Scouts Headed for Chapter 11?

[PistolBob]

And? Are you saying all gay men are therefor pedophiles?

Again, are all straight men after little girls? Are all men rapists?

All of those individuals are subsets of the larger group. They do not encompass the whole of them. Believing that they do is prejudice, not reality.

I'm saying that homosexual man sexually abused a 15 year old boy. That's what I am saying. Just the facts....draw your own conclusions.

 

[jkaetz]

The thought process goes like this, there are tons of training/advice/rules/laws that strait men should not be around young women unsupervised. The theory is that there could be temptation or opportunity and preventing the contact removes that temptation or opportunity. Why then is it allowed and pushed to allow a gay man to be in a similar situation with young men? And don't think we're just picking on one gender here, the same arguments should be consistently applied to other genders.

Of course this will not prevent all predators from assaulting young people of any gender but it is the socially accepted norm that men do not interact with young women without someone else around. Why then do we make excuses and exceptions for other genders in similar situations?

 

[churchmouse]

The thought process goes like this, there are tons of training/advice/rules/laws that strait men should not be around young women unsupervised. The theory is that there could be temptation or opportunity and preventing the contact removes that temptation or opportunity. Why then is it allowed and pushed to allow a gay man to be in a similar situation with young men? And don't think we're just picking on one gender here, the same arguments should be consistently applied to other genders.

Of course this will not prevent all predators from assaulting young people of any gender but it is the socially accepted norm that men do not interact with young women without someone else around. Why then do we make excuses and exceptions for other genders in similar situations?

Bingo.

 

[amboy49]

And? Are you saying all gay men are therefor pedophiles?

Again, are all straight men after little girls? Are all men rapists?

All of those individuals are subsets of the larger group. They do not encompass the whole of them. Believing that they do is prejudice, not reality.

Can’t quite figure why you are so intent on denying there is ANY possibility there is a heightened possibility for a gay man to use his position as scoutmaster to assert an authority figure mindset on a young man ? Most boys (or young man) are taught to respect men in a position of authority and leadership. With multiple societal elements today trying to create an atmosphere that there is no such thing as an aberration when it comes to sexual preference, gender identify, or consensual relationships it’s no wonder opportunities are plentiful for abuse to occur.

Should we assume you will next be defending someone’s participation in NAMBLA ? I think you’re working way too hard to impune heterosexuality and also way to hard to cast doubt on the possibility that gay men serving as scoutmaster can have both opportunity and motive to force their sexual preferences on the boys they are supposed to be leading into becoming productive young men.

 

[RobbyMaQ]

Having run my son through cub scouts, and boyscouts (he is now working on his eagle scout project) I can only present my dismay at the entire politics going on now.
I can't speak for other troops... What I can say, is that our troop is so close knit and everyone is watching, that it is near impossible for any such activity to occur. From personal experience, I recall laying a hand on a scouts shoulder and telling him 'great job!' only to be reminded how physical contact between adult and child was not encouraged. The buddy system, etc...

Worse, I've not gotten an email stating the current situation from BSA.

I'm tired. Tired of everyone blaming someone else EXCEPT the perpetrator... It makes it difficult to continue some days.

For those struggling to follow along... it's akin to everyone wanting to ban assault weapons due to gun violence... Just because there is ANY possibility of some moron doing something inappropriate, doesn't mean the entire program should be shut down... And like some who have ZERO experience with firearms, only soaking in what they can from the nightly news, there are those who would cast their expert opinion on what should be done without ever knowing anything about the program first hand.

As for girls in scouts? Perhaps girl scouts needs to get their **** together to present a better program for them beyond home economics 101. Vs force boy scouts to 'solve' all their problems for them (and open a whole new can of worms). And I say this speaking from experience of running my daughter through girl scouts. If you don't want to forgo your spaghetti dinners or macrame then sucks to be you... don't be blaming others for your inaction, or expect boy scouts to solve your problems for you. Venture Scouts has been an option for sometime.

 

[jkaetz]

Having run my son through cub scouts, and boyscouts (he is now working on his eagle scout project) I can only present my dismay at the entire politics going on now.
I can't speak for other troops... What I can say, is that our troop is so close knit and everyone is watching, that it is near impossible for any such activity to occur. From personal experience, I recall laying a hand on a scouts shoulder and telling him 'great job!' only to be reminded how physical contact between adult and child was not encouraged. The buddy system, etc...

Worse, I've not gotten an email stating the current situation from BSA.

I'm tired. Tired of everyone blaming someone else EXCEPT the perpetrator... It makes it difficult to continue some days.

For those struggling to follow along... it's akin to everyone wanting to ban assault weapons due to gun violence... Just because there is ANY possibility of some moron doing something inappropriate, doesn't mean the entire program should be shut down... And like some who have ZERO experience with firearms, only soaking in what they can from the nightly news, there are those who would cast their expert opinion on what should be done without ever knowing anything about the program first hand.

As for girls in scouts? Perhaps girl scouts needs to get their **** together to present a better program for them beyond home economics 101. Vs force boy scouts to 'solve' all their problems for them (and open a whole new can of worms). And I say this speaking from experience of running my daughter through girl scouts. If you don't want to forgo your spaghetti dinners or macrame then sucks to be you... don't be blaming others for your inaction, or expect boy scouts to solve your problems for you. Venture Scouts has been an option for sometime.

I have no doubt there are great troops that still teach kids the right things. I have no doubt there are great troop leaders that are gay. I also have no doubt that if a strait man lead a girl troop and it was discovered that he was a predator there would be a similar discussion. In general the social norm is that you don't associate with young people of your sexual preference yet for an unknown reason this is applied unequally.

And your're right, there are similarities to the gun control argument. One strait man has an improper relationship with a young woman. Now all strait men are prohibited from having any kind of contact with all young women that could be sensitive. Yet when the incident involves a gay man, suddenly it's just a single predator and not worthy of a vast oversimplification and broad stroke prohibitions.

 

[cobber]

No worries. Coming soon to a community near you:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Lenin_All-Union_Pioneer_Organization

 

[Ziggidy]

It is certainly obvious that we are seeing a change our culture. Kids experimenting with deviant lifestyles at an earlier and earlier age. Where are they taught about these lifestyles? In the home, I do not think so. In school, by their teachers who cram sexual ed class down the throats, introducing them to perverse lifestyles at an age they cannot fully understand their own body, they are taught to understand what used to called perversion, to accept it, embrace it ands it's ok to "be" it. That is one reason we see young snowflakes and fruitcakes in pre-teen years.

Enter scouts, of other leaders who support the gay agenda. Children are being taught "alternative" lifestyles are ok, even ok to experiment with. You have a scout leader who is gay, and young person who may be confused, alone.

50 years ago, that gay scout leader was quiet about his perversion. The child not taught bout sex, and certainly not taught about sex perversions. Our society knew, but our society had control. Pandora's box was opened......and scout sex is just one area we suffer......one area of many.

ANYNE who would send their child into a questionable area, even if 98% sure it was ok, still needs to worry about the 2% or you are not a good parent.

 

[churchmouse]

Having run my son through cub scouts, and boyscouts (he is now working on his eagle scout project) I can only present my dismay at the entire politics going on now.
I can't speak for other troops... What I can say, is that our troop is so close knit and everyone is watching, that it is near impossible for any such activity to occur. From personal experience, I recall laying a hand on a scouts shoulder and telling him 'great job!' only to be reminded how physical contact between adult and child was not encouraged. The buddy system, etc...

Worse, I've not gotten an email stating the current situation from BSA.

I'm tired. Tired of everyone blaming someone else EXCEPT the perpetrator... It makes it difficult to continue some days.

For those struggling to follow along... it's akin to everyone wanting to ban assault weapons due to gun violence... Just because there is ANY possibility of some moron doing something inappropriate, doesn't mean the entire program should be shut down... And like some who have ZERO experience with firearms, only soaking in what they can from the nightly news, there are those who would cast their expert opinion on what should be done without ever knowing anything about the program first hand.

As for girls in scouts? Perhaps girl scouts needs to get their **** together to present a better program for them beyond home economics 101. Vs force boy scouts to 'solve' all their problems for them (and open a whole new can of worms). And I say this speaking from experience of running my daughter through girl scouts. If you don't want to forgo your spaghetti dinners or macrame then sucks to be you... don't be blaming others for your inaction, or expect boy scouts to solve your problems for you. Venture Scouts has been an option for sometime.

+10 inbound

 

[PistolBob]

It is certainly obvious that we are seeing a change our culture. Kids experimenting with deviant lifestyles at an earlier and earlier age. Where are they taught about these lifestyles? In the home, I do not think so. In school, by their teachers who cram sexual ed class down the throats, introducing them to perverse lifestyles at an age they cannot fully understand their own body, they are taught to understand what used to called perversion, to accept it, embrace it ands it's ok to "be" it. That is one reason we see young snowflakes and fruitcakes in pre-teen years.

Enter scouts, of other leaders who support the gay agenda. Children are being taught "alternative" lifestyles are ok, even ok to experiment with. You have a scout leader who is gay, and young person who may be confused, alone.

50 years ago, that gay scout leader was quiet about his perversion. The child not taught bout sex, and certainly not taught about sex perversions. Our society knew, but our society had control. Pandora's box was opened......and scout sex is just one area we suffer......one area of many.

ANYNE who would send their child into a questionable area, even if 98% sure it was ok, still needs to worry about the 2% or you are not a good parent.

You make many good points. One thing I'd like to add. Children today have mostly unfettered access to the internet. You can institute firewalls, and parental rules, and 10 kinds of web site blocking...but the kids still have access to perverse and wicked images and sounds via the almost "internet everywhere" environment we live in. I have no children, mine are all grown and raising their children now, but I'd no sooner give my grand kids an unsupervised loaded gun to carry around as I would a smartphone...they're 14 and younger.

It's safe to say that every time an adult male molests or sexually misappropriates a male child, the predator is a homosexual. Child sexual abuse is not limited to just homosexuals though....it just makes better headlines.

 

[PGRChaplain]

Sad, I'm a Boy Scouts of America alumni. I still have friends from Troop 27, 60 plus years later.

 

[churchmouse]

You make many good points. One thing I'd like to add. Children today have mostly unfettered access to the internet. You can institute firewalls, and parental rules, and 10 kinds of web site blocking...but the kids still have access to perverse and wicked images and sounds via the almost "internet everywhere" environment we live in. I have no children, mine are all grown and raising their children now, but I'd no sooner give my grand kids an unsupervised loaded gun to carry around as I would a smartphone...they're 14 and younger.

It's safe to say that every time an adult male molests or sexually misappropriates a male child, the predator is a homosexual. Child sexual abuse is not limited to just homosexuals though....it just makes better headlines.

Many of you would faint at the discussions I have with my 11 year old G-daughter. They get this Bravo Sierra in school. Every day from the kids with unrestricted internet access. Some carry a smart phone (10/11 years old) and pull up some insidious crap. When kids meet the 1st thing they ask is sexual preferences. Are you straight/gay/bi/trans. She has friends that at 11 are identifying as Bi-sexual. In the 6th grade. We discuss this stuff daily. I try and keep her on point as does her parents but she is comfortable talking to me so we have this bond. She is really smart and very artistic. If you discussed with her you would swear she is 20 years old.
This is the struggle. We can no longer protect or isolate our young people from the whack's. My G-daughter has a Tablet but does not carry it. Home use only. Her dad has a site tracker on it so his phone alerts him as to what she views. Mainly art sites. She follows certain illustrators as she admires their work but no silly crap. The terrorists (see avatar) use my tablet and phone when they are here. We monitor all the stuff they are looking at. But when they come home from school with this **** what are you going to do. The administrators could care.

 

[Leadeye]

It's my understanding they are looking at Chapter 11 bankruptcy which sounds more like relief from legal bills rather than closing the organization. What happens after reorganization I think we'll just have to wait and see.

On a personal note I was in Scouts, Cubs, Boys, etc until my family moved. I count the time spent there as a wonderful experience, but we're talking 1960s and I have no idea what it's like today.

Maybe it's one of those many things that's headed for the sunset.

 

[PistolBob]

It's my understanding they are looking at Chapter 11 bankruptcy which sounds more like relief from legal bills rather than closing the organization. What happens after reorganization I think we'll just have to wait and see.

On a personal note I was in Scouts, Cubs, Boys, etc until my family moved. I count the time spent there as a wonderful experience, but we're talking 1960s and I have no idea what it's like today.

Maybe it's one of those many things that's headed for the sunset.

Chapter 11 is not the end of the world or the Boy Scouts as you have so correctly pointed out. Also each council is a separate entity, they get almost nothing from the national organization and they pay annual fees to the BSA to be the sole provider of the BSA program in their geographical area. We are very fortunate here in central Indiana, the Crossroads of America Council is in good financial shape. The scouting program is primarily a localized program. Now with the recent arrest of one of the Council leaders for sexual misconduct with a minor, I would imagine the council is talking to their legal and finance people to figure out what they need to do to prepare for the likely civil suit that will come of this crime...but I'm no insider so I really have no idea. The charters and the Council need to make doubly sure they know who they are putting in adult leader and adult volunteer positions.

The days of signing the app and buying a uniform need to be over. Current rules require a prospective adult to complete the 2 hour Youth Protection Training and pass the exam, before they can even apply to be a registered adult with a chartered scouting unit. Once they sign the application they agree to submit to a mandatory criminal background check, and a possible credit check all done by the Council. In my case, our charter is a Catholic church...so the adult also has to complete a much longer course called "Safe and Sacred", sign a form allowing the parish to do a criminal background check through the archdiocese, and then be approved by the Pastor or his representative. I still have some hope.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Boy Scouts of America, hobbled by multiple sex-abuse lawsuits, files for bankruptcy

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Too bad they’ve ruined it.

 

[teddy12b]

They've had a political target on their back for a long time as an organization. My kid is in cub scouts, and I've been a den leader, but growing up I wasn't in it more than a year before I got bored making paper airplanes. It's not the "go to the woods" organization it once was if it ever really was that. I hope they survive this and get back to their roots.

 

[spencer rifle]

Depends on the troop.

Our local cubs spend at least a day at a local park for cookouts, hikes and outdoor education.

Our youngest's troop camps at least monthly in ALL kinds of weather, and just got back from a luge campout in Michigan. Youngest has less than a year to get his Eagle - hope he makes it before the whole thing collapses. We're going to Philmont this summer for a 12 day backpacking trip.

 

[teddy12b]

I don't know that an Eagle means what it used to mean. I've seen some guys get that that I wouldn't count on to put a bandaid on during an emergency.

 

[teddy12b]

If you guys haven't heard of this yet, check this out: National Pathfinder Youth This seems to be a modern revamp of what the boy scouts used to be, or at least what I think they used to be.