Burning my Hunting & Fishing License! IDNR is Corrupt! Look at DEER Rifle BAN

[openwell]

Uh, the cartridges you listed ARE "handgun" cartridges being used in a rifle. There is no magical differentiation in the legal definition. They either meet the parameters and they are legally "handgun cartridges" (despite the fact that their use may be most prevalent in rifles), or they don't meet the parameters and they are not "handgun cartridges". The entire reason the cartridges you listed were developed and in use for hunting is BECAUSE they met the definition of handgun cartridges.

I am confused????? by your reply???? CB you do realise the BAN is for ALL Rifles on Public Land. Cartridges that previously met the length requirement of less than or equal to 1.8 inches are moot.

NO Rifles of ANY KIND may be used on Public Lands to HUNT DEER. Only shotguns, muzzleloaders & handguns may be used to hunt deer...............on public state or federal lands in INDIANA......................... Now that makes hunters with private land access able to use ANY Rifle .243 or greater because they pay more taxes and get more respect from lawmakers & the wonderful servants of the people of Indiana employees of the IDNR.................................LOL all the way to the license burning fires.............. Join me and let the powers that be know what you think of this imbalance of privilege ..........................

 

[Expatriated]

Is it the same in every state?—that hunting on federal land is regulated by the state Dnr? Specifically relating to calibers? Are their no federal laws recommending/requiring/prohibiting certain calibers?

 

[openwell]

Is it the same in every state?—that hunting on federal land is regulated by the state Dnr? Specifically relating to calibers? Are their no federal laws recommending/requiring/prohibiting certain calibers?

Seems like the feds defer to the states on establishing wildlife laws except for the few exceptions like migratory fowl, wolves and such.

A farmer in West Virginia once joked that the state owned deer except when one jumps in front of you on the highway and totals your car then you own it without any recourse to sue the state. Fun how things work like that.............

 

[CountryBoy19]

I am confused????? by your reply???? CB you do realise the BAN is for ALL Rifles on Public Land. Cartridges that previously met the length requirement of less than or equal to 1.8 inches are moot.

NO Rifles of ANY KIND may be used on Public Lands to HUNT DEER. Only shotguns, muzzleloaders & handguns may be used to hunt deer...............on public state or federal lands in INDIANA......................... Now that makes hunters with private land access able to use ANY Rifle .243 or greater because they pay more taxes and get more respect from lawmakers & the wonderful servants of the people of Indiana employees of the IDNR.................................LOL all the way to the license burning fires.............. Join me and let the powers that be know what you think of this imbalance of privilege ..........................

Rifles in handgun calibers were the only rifles ever allowed on public property. Your post is lambasting the disallowing of rifles on public property and your post seems to indicate that you believe there is a difference between the calibers you listed and other rifles in pistol calibers. All of the calibers listed by you were classified as pistol caliber. I don't get your point.

Also, your ridiculous presumption that this is all about how much people pay in taxes is just that, ridiculous... that is clearly absurd...

 

[d.kaufman]

Rifles in handgun calibers were the only rifles ever allowed on public property. Your post is lambasting the disallowing of rifles on public property and your post seems to indicate that you believe there is a difference between the calibers you listed and other rifles in pistol calibers. All of the calibers listed by you were classified as pistol caliber. I don't get your point.

Also, your ridiculous presumption that this is all about how much people pay in taxes is just that, ridiculous... that is clearly absurd...

Ive never seen a 458 socom handgun, and if there was i sure wouldnt wanna shoot it. As far as i know 458 socom was and always has been a rifle caliber, and it has been legal on public land for quite a few years

 

[Restroyer]

I am confused????? by your reply???? CB you do realise the BAN is for ALL Rifles on Public Land. Cartridges that previously met the length requirement of less than or equal to 1.8 inches are moot.

NO Rifles of ANY KIND may be used on Public Lands to HUNT DEER. Only shotguns, muzzleloaders & handguns may be used to hunt deer...............on public state or federal lands in INDIANA......................... Now that makes hunters with private land access able to use ANY Rifle .243 or greater because they pay more taxes and get more respect from lawmakers & the wonderful servants of the people of Indiana employees of the IDNR.................................LOL all the way to the license burning fires.............. Join me and let the powers that be know what you think of this imbalance of privilege ..........................

Drop the "privilege" argument about private land owners being given preference because we pay more taxes. That has nothing to do with this. I am blessed to have enough land to hunt on my own property. That has been my situation for only 3 years because I grew up poor but my wife & I saved every penny we could for 20 years so that we could one day buy a nice house on some acreage. Your bitterness towards private land owners makes you sound like a whiny Millennial (I know your older than a Millennial but still you are sounding like one).

 

[openwell]

Rifles in handgun calibers were the only rifles ever allowed on public property. Your post is lambasting the disallowing of rifles on public property and your post seems to indicate that you believe there is a difference between the calibers you listed and other rifles in pistol calibers. All of the calibers listed by you were classified as pistol caliber. I don't get your point.

Also, your ridiculous presumption that this is all about how much people pay in taxes is just that, ridiculous... that is clearly absurd...

Clearly the taxes thing is a joke, sorry you didn't understand that it really is as ridiculous as allowing one hunter to use a Rifle on Private land while arresting another for hunting with the same weapon on PUBLIC LAND.................now you get it??????????????// yea I think so...........

With respect to "handgun caliber" being the only rifles ever allowed on Public lands to hunt deer I must defer to your youth.....................

For example the 45-70 govt. cartridge was for the most part designed for and with the exception of a few very strange revolvers & Thompson Contender types a Rifle cartridge.
I handload and cut the case of a standard 45-70 to exactly 1.8 inches and as such it was legal for me to hunt deer on private and public land with a Marlin 1895 lever action rifle.
AJ Brown, a retired Crane Naval operations gunsmith did the same thing with the 35 Remington cartridge and named his creation the .358 Hoosier (google it) and
sold many a rifle that was legal on private and public lands.........................SO, please look in the current hunting regs. booklet published in July, 2017 and read about what legal rifles were going to allowed on PUBLIC lands until the recent IDNR mystery public information release that started this whole mess......................good reading to you.................

 

[openwell]

Drop the "privilege" argument about private land owners being given preference because we pay more taxes. That has nothing to do with this. I am blessed to have enough land to hunt on my own property. That has been my situation for only 3 years because I grew up poor but my wife & I saved every penny we could for 20 years so that we could one day buy a nice house on some acreage. Your bitterness towards private land owners makes you sound like a whiny Millennial (I know your older than a Millennial but still you are sounding like one).

Sorry I WON'T DROP anything******************, If you can't see that one hunter is allowed to use a rifle on Private land and another arrested for using the exact same weapon is a FARCE and completely ridiculous then again ..................look for the humour in the whole thing..................YMMV IMHO....................

 

[halfmileharry]

I've been abiding by DNR regulations for decades.
I never thought much about not liking it or not.
I paid my license fees and went hunting.
I figure they're smarter at herd management than I am so I leave the masterminding to them.
Being from TN I always hunt rifle there or KY. I used to hunt Colorado for muleys, antelope, and elk, but that state lost my revenue with their socialist ways.

 

[openwell]

I've been abiding by DNR regulations for decades.
I never thought much about not liking it or not.
I paid my license fees and went hunting.
I figure they're smarter at herd management than I am so I leave the masterminding to them.
Being from TN I always hunt rifle there or KY. I used to hunt Colorado for muleys, antelope, and elk, but that state lost my revenue with their socialist ways.

sounds great! but they are not doing herd management ..........................................they are doing hunter management.
maybe you should give a thought to it now....................when one man can and another can't and you are living in the same state......

I have hunted deer with a rifle since 1987 in West Virginia. and stopped hunting except for waterfowl in Indiana in 1995..................
only recently started fishing here again.

THE current leadership of the IDNR is out-of-touch and CORRUPT.............. currently there is a WAR between the IDNR who are supposed to be technical managers of the wildlife and the lawmakers who saw to over-ride them in 2016 by passing the 5 caliber deer rifles plus the 10mm auto & 40S&W deer pistols (which otherwise would not meet minimum cartridge lengths). And now has fallen down to a soooooooooooooo sorrry we just didn't read the law the lawmakers passed and now hunter must pay.................

I am done with Indiana in many ways and hunting is something I enjoy but don't enjoy in Indiana............................so my loss***************,,but your loss too............. Sorry but that's my humble opinion.............YMMV

 

[halfmileharry]

Is it the DNR or elected representatives making the rules?
There's always going to be the fight of Bambi Killers vs the bunny lovers.
I'm pretty sure you won't be getting your money refunded on the burnt license thingy.
I don't like the way a lot of this stuff is set up either.
I wish we didn't have to kiss any ass to do anything but those in power have set it up for us to have chapped lips.
I'm sure all this crap started about the turn of the 20th century when some azzhatt screwed up and shot the neighbor's chicken so we all have to have licenses and permission of where and when to hunt.

 

[CountryBoy19]

Ive never seen a 458 socom handgun, and if there was i sure wouldnt wanna shoot it. As far as i know 458 socom was and always has been a rifle caliber, and it has been legal on public land for quite a few years

Not by legal definition concerning deer hunting in Indiana, and that is the subject at hand here. It fit the legal description of a pistol caliber, and therefore was legal to be used in a rifle on public property. All of the aforementioned calibers openwell is speaking of fit that description. There is nothing "special" about the .458 Socom except it's one of the most powerful cartridges that meets the definition of a pistol caliber for deer-hunting in Indiana.

Clearly the taxes thing is a joke, sorry you didn't understand that it really is as ridiculous as allowing one hunter to use a Rifle on Private land while arresting another for hunting with the same weapon on PUBLIC LAND.................now you get it??????????????// yea I think so...........

If your beef with the unintentional ban of pistol caliber rifles on public land, or is it with them permitting high-power rifle on private property as a trial run?

With respect to "handgun caliber" being the only rifles ever allowed on Public lands to hunt deer I must defer to your youth.....................

My youth? You mean your youth? Just how young do you think I am? I'm old enough to know the history on when PCRs were first allowed and how we got to where we are today. Something you clearly don't understand.

For example the 45-70 govt. cartridge was for the most part designed for and with the exception of a few very strange revolvers & Thompson Contender types a Rifle cartridge.
I handload and cut the case of a standard 45-70 to exactly 1.8 inches and as such it was legal for me to hunt deer on private and public land with a Marlin 1895 lever action rifle.

Yes, you take a traditionally rifle chambering (although I've seen them in handguns) and shorten it to meet the definition of pistol caliber for the purpose of Indiana Deer Hunting with a rifle. I get that, I really do. I owned a 458 socom several years ago so that I too could have a pistol caliber rifle to hunt deer. Thankfully, I saw the writing on the wall and sold it a few years back because I knew it was only a matter of time that HPR would be legal for deer hunting and 458 socom would lose it's appeal.

AJ Brown, a retired Crane Naval operations gunsmith did the same thing with the 35 Remington cartridge and named his creation the .358 Hoosier (google it)

I don't need to google it. I've known Alan, and been in his shop, long before he came up with the 358 hoosier.

SO, please look in the current hunting regs. booklet published in July, 2017 and read about what legal rifles were going to allowed on PUBLIC lands until the recent IDNR mystery public information release that started this whole mess......................good reading to you.................

I don't need to read it again. Really, I think you need to read the entirety of the situation. It's not a "mystery public information release", it was an unintentional legislative snafu that they didn't catch last year, and caught this year, but not until AFTER the guides were printed. The reason this is such a boondoggle is because traditionally the NRC (that stands for Natural Resources Commission) determined what was legal to hunt with. After years of saying "no" to high-power rifle, the legislative body got involved because of public pressure. Prior to that there was no legal code specifying legal calibers, prohibiting calibers etc, it was all handled through the NRC. What the legislature didn't realize was that allowing rifles, but adding restrictions into that section of code not only restricted that section of code, it overstepped into restricting ALL rules developed by the NRC with respect to PCRs because they did not differentiate between the high-power rifles that they were trying to make legal on private property as a trial run, and the pistol caliber rifles that had been legal on all property for a number of years; they just called them "rifles" which meant the restrictions encompass all rifles. The DNR isn't corrupt (at least not because of this), they've just been slow (1-1/2 years slow) to catch on to the fact that the law, as written, is much different from the law, as intended, and they are taking the law literally, as written, instead of taking the law as intended.

I believe they COULD take the law as intended, but that opens them up to legal recourse, of which they likely don't want to take the fall for, so they take the conservative approach and say, "look, due to a screw-up, it's not legal to use any rifles on public property, sorry. We know this is goig to tick people off, but it wasn't us that made this illegal, it was your legislature so you need to call them."

IMHO, I don't think anybody has any grounds to be mad at the DNR over this. The only thing I think you could possibly blame them for is not catching it sooner. They had the chance to look over the bill, they had their chance to catch it last year, they had their chance to catch it when it passed this spring, but they JUST NOW caught it? Inept, maybe. Over-worked, maybe. But then again, they aren't necessarily lawyers. How many lawyers do we have on INGO? How many internet lawyers do we have on INGO. Nobody, not a single one of them, caught this until now. So I don't know that they are inept or over-worked. I think it was just something that was hard to catch/notice, but once discovered you can't just pretend it doesn't exist. It's unfortunate, and I feel for all those that planned to use a PCR on public property. I've heard rumors that they are trying to fix this before season but because it was the legislature that did it, and they aren't in session right now, they may not be able to do it.

 

[Sniper 79]

Burned mine a long time ago. Take trips if I feel the need to whack something and grill it.

Too many rules and weirdos in the woods pumping lead into the bushes.

 

[JimH]

How in the world did people keep from starving back before any cf rifles were allowed?

 

[Hookeye]

I thought the .358 Hoosier was based off the .358 Win case, not .35 Remington............

 

[CountryBoy19]

How in the world did people keep from starving back before any cf rifles were allowed?

Muzzleloaders and shotguns... it's quite possible that many people abandoned their shotgun setups long ago in favor of PCRs, and with the new, inadvertent rule change, they have to dust off the old gear. What happens if they no longer have that old gear, or they got rid of a crucial part of it? They now have only a few weeks to replace that if they wish to hunt this season.

The frustration is understandable, but those likening it to some special treatment, or corruption, or anything EXCEPT for the legal snafu that it is, is just coming across as a whiny baby... Yes, the deer-hunting rules in Indiana are a convoluted mess, and if they had been fixed years ago we wouldn't have this problem, but whining about it here isn't going to change anything. People need to contact their legislators. This is the state-level here. It's very likely that you live near yours, and you may know exactly what house is theirs. Nothing beats grass-roots level discussing with them; call them or go see them.

 

[HuntMeister]

AJ Brown did not create the 358 Hoosier, but he does build rifles chambered for this cartridge.
358 Hoosier is based on the 358 Winchester.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

I say that we boycott deer hunting on public land completely to protest this outrage.

(In particular, please boycott Northern Jackson Co.)

 

[openwell]

Folks who are stuck on technical terms from Indiana hunt guide such as: "high-powered Rifles" as distinct from "center-fire" Rifles amuse me...................ha,

In simple terms: you have, in order of technology++++
1- rimfire cartridges 2-center-fire cartridges 3- some kind of "electronic-fire" etonic that Remington thought was a winner but failed,

If you reload, so do.........please bear with me............ Most professionals in wildlife management have college degrees in forestry, wildlife management and so forth....
They keep their eyes open to laws in "regional" states surrounding Indiana for trends and such. As new technology arrives they tend to duplicate those states that have gone before them...

Indiana has failed miserably, they are fixated on this "public" land or "private" land to great disadvantage of all hunters. They spend a whole page 19 to impress hunters that 1,661 new acres in year 2016! On page 2 One IDNR guy ask hunters to "take and teach" youngsters about hunting.........fishing? Not happening for me.

Then they are OK with technology drift backwards...................center-fire rifles can only be used on "private" land

similar to: hunters on "private" lands may use boots,shoes or any other foot covering. hunters on "public" lands must use "moccasins"

 

[Hookeye]

This mess is not a legal snafu.
IMHO the law was worded well enough.

It will get cleaned up though, dunno when, and PCR will be legal on public land.
Because NOTHING in question ever calls out a PCR removal.

If for some reason PCR is to be removed from public land (hey things can change), it will come from statements of a removal, not come about from simple omission.

While PCR and HP rifle are all centerfire (thanks for telling us Openwell, we are all friggin' retarded), they ARE broken down by sub groups. Like it or not.
The distinction in general power/range..........is what got some rifles allowed in the first place (PCR legal statewide back in 2008?)

PCR in some areas is further limited to straight wall cases (Michigan I believe, maybe Ohio).

Most Bambi slayers don't reload. I reckon the .44 mag and .357 mag the top PCR rounds. .450 BM seems to be a favorite up north, so much so Ruger did limited runs for a dealer, and now has made .450 BM chamberings outside of that special run.