CA cop draws gun on guy filming him

[HoughMade]

It wouldn't bother you to be approached like that?

Would I mind in a cop cruised slowly through my neighborhood? No.

If I filmed him, would I get bent out of shape when he got out of his vehicle and wanted to talk to me? No. In fact, if he wanted to talk to me and I wasn't fimimg it wouldn't bother me.

Of course, I would take my hand out of my pocket and the gun would likely never be unholstered.

Would it surprise me that if I refused to take my hand out and argued, he unholstered? It shouldn't.

Would I like it if a cop followed me trying to talk to me after all this? Maybe not, but I'll probably never get a chance to find out because I'm not an argumentative idiot.

I'm no expert, but I kind of thought that police cruising through neighborhoods looking for anything even slightly awry was a good thing. Now, whether you think he should have gotten out and talked to the guy just because he was recording, well I don't know, it's a judgment call, but where I used to live, police would pull up and talk to people from time to time because, well, sometimes people talk to each other. I have to admit that if someone were recording me, I might want to see if there was any particular reason they were. I don't see anything wrong with that.

 

[actaeon277]

I agree with Hough about maybe he shoulda just pulled his hands out of his pockets.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

I agree with Hough about maybe he shoulda just pulled his hands out of his pockets.

We should always abide by the demands of our authorities.

Take your hands out of your pockets. Put your hands on your head. Lay down on the ground.

 

[chipbennett]

I agree with Hough about maybe he shoulda just pulled his hands out of his pockets.

Why?

 

[Rookie]

We should always abide by the demands of our authorities.

Take your hands out of your pockets. Put your hands on your head. Lay down on the ground.

Why?

You must be one of those argumentative idiots.

 

[chipbennett]

I'm no expert, but I kind of thought that police cruising through neighborhoods looking for anything even slightly awry was a good thing. Now, whether you think he should have gotten out and talked to the guy just because he was recording, well I don't know, it's a judgment call, but where I used to live, police would pull up and talk to people from time to time because, well, sometimes people talk to each other. I have to admit that if someone were recording me, I might want to see if there was any particular reason they were. I don't see anything wrong with that.

There is a difference between a consensual encounter with a police officer, and an implied detention. A police officer is free - as is every citizen - to engage in conversation with anyone else. I doubt many here would have any problem whatsoever with police officers who do so.

The problem comes when the police officer escalates that consensual encounter/conversational engagement into an explicit or implied detention, by taking a command tone, giving orders, and unholstering his firearm. That is exactly what happened in this instance, and it is that escalation (that included the completely unjustified threat of deadly force) with which people take issue.

It is unhelpful to conflate this implied detention with a consensual encounter.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

You must be one of those argumentative idiots.

 

[actaeon277]

We should always abide by the demands of our authorities.

Take your hands out of your pockets. Put your hands on your head. Lay down on the ground.

If it gets to the point of me laying on the ground, I guess I'D BETTER.
The point to argue would be after. In the office, or in a court of law.

 

[Rookie]

No problem officer. I wouldn't want to be an argumentative idiot.

 

[HoughMade]

Why?

We can argue about claims of "officer safety" all day, but.....why not? Even if you think the cop is being unreasonable, is it smart to refuse to do this simple thing when a police officer with a gun asks you to?

Think he's violating your right? That isn't the time to make that case.

 

[chipbennett]

We can argue about claims of "officer safety" all day, but.....why not? Even if you think the cop is being unreasonable, is it smart to refuse to do this simple thing when a police officer with a gun asks you to?

What else should I do, merely because a man with a badge and a gun orders me to do it?

 

[HoughMade]

What else should I do, merely because a man with a badge and a gun orders me to do it?

We're talking about a specific instance. Show me the video and I'll give my opinion on it.

 

[daddyusmaximus]

I try not to be an argumentative idiot, or a constitutional crazy, but I'm siding the the guy filming on this one. We can't see what he was doing behind the camera, and not sure why he started filming in the first place, but if he's holding the camera (phone) in one hand, and has his other in his pocket... that's no threat.

 

[chipbennett]

Seems germane to this discussion:

Jon Wayne Taylor to Law Enforcement: How to Deal with Gun Owners - The Truth About Guns

 

[chipbennett]

We're talking about a specific instance. Show me the video and I'll give my opinion on it.

Fair enough: why is the request to remove a hand from a pocket, in this specific instance, reasonable? And what are the legal and moral implications of choosing not to comply with an unlawful (even if reasonable) demand to remove a hand from a pocket?

 

[actaeon277]

Fair enough: why is the request to remove a hand from a pocket, in this specific instance, reasonable? And what are the legal and moral implications of choosing not to comply with an unlawful (even if reasonable) demand to remove a hand from a pocket?

I'm guessing it would be to make sure your hand isn't on a gun in the pocket.
I didn't see the officer with his hand on a gun until the refusal to pull a hand out of a pocket.

As for "orders from a police officer".... If he orders me to shoot someone, no I'm not. If he orders me to take my hand out of my pocket.
If he wants to search my car, I will let him, but in a calm voice inform him I do not consent to a search.

 

[Rookie]

If that was his reasoning, how do you explain the officer turning his back on the guy after they exchanged words? The officer never checked, so the guy could still have a gun. Seems to me, he wasn't all that concerned with the guy having a weapon after all.

 

[HoughMade]

I thought this was obvious...but I guess not.

Do I think the officer should have drawn his gun? Don't know. Didn't see what he saw, but given the noncompliance, I understand why he did it. Putting myself in the place of the guy recording, my goal is not provoke people with guns. Whether they are acting perfectly or 100% reasonably or not- that's my goal. Don't give the person any reason to think that I may be a threat of any kind. Was that officer to quick to draw? Maybe, but if I'm compliant with the simple request to take my hand out of my pocket, he probably doesn't draw.

It seems like many people here want to look at this from a thousand feet and say that if the officer was wrong, the citizen should not have complied. I think that if you operate like that someplace other than the internet, that's not smart.

If the officer is going to be unreasonable (if, in fact he was), then here's my chance to be the grown up in the situation- which means NOT reacting back to him the way you believe he is acting to you. That's what grade school kids do. Adults should do the smart thing and defuse and deescalate a situation even if the cop is wrong. Obviously there will be times (rare) when your safety demands noncompliance, but this isn't one of them.

Say we have a grade A-hole cop who not only draws, but fires. Is your stand to not take your hand out of your pocket the best choice then? You may be "right", and let that be a consolation to your family. What I saw here was not a problem of any type until the moment the cop said to take his hand out of his pocket. I could go either way on whether he should have done that depending upon what he saw at the time, but if he was wrong to give that order, it seems dumb to refuse and argue. This cop never pointed the gun, which is a good thing. Maybe you will get the cop with the itchy trigger finger....will your stance on principle about keeping your hand in your pocket work out well then?

Even if the cop is wrong, defiance isn't necessarily the way to go.

 

[BiscuitNaBasket]

If that was his reasoning, how do you explain the officer turning his back on the guy after they exchanged words? The officer never checked, so the guy could still have a gun. Seems to me, he wasn't all that concerned with the guy having a weapon after all.

That's what leads me to believe the officer was not investigating because he believed the guy was up to something illegal, he just walks around with his gun in hand not issuing more commands, not calling for backup, not in fear of anything... He looked like a rooster strutting about trying to prove something. Then the officer ends the encounter without any explanation of what was happening in the first place.

If he had issue with the guy filming him he should have just waved at the camera and went about his business.

 

[Tyler-The-Piker]

many years ago when I was standing in front of a friend's apartment, two officers rounded a blind corner and immediately told me to remove my hands from my pockets (they had their hands atop their holstered glocks)...I might've broken the sound barrier pulling my hands out of my pockets with a quickness...unbeknownst to me they were responding to MWAG call...glad I complied