Calibers For Self Defense - Suarez

[shooter521]

Well, here's a rather dramatic instance of a 9mm failure to stop, from noted ballistics guru Dr. Gary Roberts, as posted on another forum:
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Original Article: http://www.ohio.com/news/37986589.html]http://www.ohio.com/news/37986589.html

"Man accused of killing wife is still in jail
Published on Wednesday, Jan 21, 2009
Beacon Journal staff report

The man accused of shooting his estranged wife and holding their son hostage from police remains jailed. Daniel Tice, 32, appeared in Akron Municipal Court Tuesday morning still showing the gunshot wound that ended an eight-hour standoff with police this month. He is charged with aggravated murder in the shooting death of his wife, Brandi Tice, 28. Daniel Tice was shot by police once in the forehead while he was holed up in the basement of his Martha Avenue home. The shot fractured his skull. Tice underwent surgery at Akron City Hospital and was taken Friday to the Summit County Jail, where he is being held in lieu of a $1 million bond set by visiting Judge Michael McNulty. Family members say Tice was angered over his wife's affair with a family member and her demand for a divorce. He is accused of shooting his wife in the living room, taking his son and holding police at bay for eight hours. His 4-year-old son was not harmed. The couple's two daughters, 8 and 7, were kept from the home when they returned from school. SWAT members worked their way inside the home and shot Tice with an MP5 assault rifle [sic] after failing to subdue the 6-foot-1, 280-pound man with nonlethal bean bags fired from a gun."

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Regarding the 9 mm hit—the point of aim is a bit too high and looks like it may be on a curved portion of the skull. You actually want to target the eye-sockets, especially with a handgun round to avoid projectile deflection from the skull (this happens more frequently than people expect).

Don't bring pistol caliber weapons to the fight if you have the option of using a rifle...

 

[BigSky85]

This seems really logical to me. I've heard recently of people in law enforcement carrying 22 mags for an off duty gun.

 

[Hookeye]

+1 good post! I however, dont think too many people get the chance to survive a torso shot with a 1oz slug How in the world it ripped through without severing main arteries or vital organs is astonishing.

A foster slug can deform quite easily. I wonder if it slid around more than plowed through.

I popped a 9pt close with a 3" foster, from tree stand. It hit IIRC 2nd rib up from back of ribcage, near the spine (strongest part of the rib I'm thinking). It should have gone straight through and out just over center to other side, between the front legs. Instead it slid through the loin (same side as entrance) and stopped at the back of his head. Crumpled him. On any immediate drop you hammer again, so the next went in and out the chest as he laid there.

Bet the 12 gauge slug recipient in the OP would have been dead if he was shot with the old BRI type of sabot round (esp the deer version called a High Impact Supreme).

I have killed a few deer with those and all shots stayed on line. I shot one from the ground, maybe 12 yards, hit front of near shoulder, quartering to, and found the slug under the fur in the opp rear ham. He jumped high and ran 75 yards and stood, taking a 2nd that exited where the first entered (that was kinda funky upon initial inspection- 2 shots, only 2 holes (llooked like only the second made contact LOL).

 

[BehindBlueI's]

4 year old thread revival? Worth it to read that a 9mm is a .45 set on stun.

On a side note, when did "operator" cease to be a little old lady who helped you make phone calls and become synonymous with fighter?

 

[chezuki]

Lol. This thread smells of decay.

 

[Indyhd]

Well, here's a rather dramatic instance of a 9mm failure to stop, from noted ballistics guru Dr. Gary Roberts, as posted on another forum:
____________________________________

Original Article: http://www.ohio.com/news/37986589.html]http://www.ohio.com/news/37986589.html

"Man accused of killing wife is still in jail
Published on Wednesday, Jan 21, 2009
Beacon Journal staff report

The man accused of shooting his estranged wife and holding their son hostage from police remains jailed. Daniel Tice, 32, appeared in Akron Municipal Court Tuesday morning still showing the gunshot wound that ended an eight-hour standoff with police this month. He is charged with aggravated murder in the shooting death of his wife, Brandi Tice, 28. Daniel Tice was shot by police once in the forehead while he was holed up in the basement of his Martha Avenue home. The shot fractured his skull. Tice underwent surgery at Akron City Hospital and was taken Friday to the Summit County Jail, where he is being held in lieu of a $1 million bond set by visiting Judge Michael McNulty. Family members say Tice was angered over his wife's affair with a family member and her demand for a divorce. He is accused of shooting his wife in the living room, taking his son and holding police at bay for eight hours. His 4-year-old son was not harmed. The couple's two daughters, 8 and 7, were kept from the home when they returned from school. SWAT members worked their way inside the home and shot Tice with an MP5 assault rifle [sic] after failing to subdue the 6-foot-1, 280-pound man with nonlethal bean bags fired from a gun."

------------------------

Regarding the 9 mm hit—the point of aim is a bit too high and looks like it may be on a curved portion of the skull. You actually want to target the eye-sockets, especially with a handgun round to avoid projectile deflection from the skull (this happens more frequently than people expect).

Don't bring pistol caliber weapons to the fight if you have the option of using a rifle...

Didn't say what the perp used to kill his wife, but if it was a 9mm I guess the incident would confirm 50% lethality of 9MM.

Personally I go with the addage that "the .32, or.380, or whatever I have in my pocket is better than the .45 you left in your nightstand."

Very good article, but why are these old threads popping back up again?
The "I need to get to 50 posts crew" at it again?

 

[whispers76]

Agreed, any gun is a good gun with a skilled shooter. I carry either a 1911(main carry), MP9, MP40c, or Walter PPK, depending on the day. 1911 is main carry only because I like the gun, it was my given to me by my Grandfather. 26 year gunny and the most respected man I've known.

 

[wayner430]

Very good post! I have been having trouble deciding whether to carry the .45 or 9mm. All my buddies carry 9mm and heavily advocate the ability to send a higher volume of fire downrange. I personally fire the .45 better and have more comfort with it. However, I may now consider more trips to the range to better myself with the 9mm. Very informative and made my decision even more difficult!!!! Thanks for the post!

 

[Big Ram]

Great post. I've always been that guy who only carries 45 however I shoot best with it but I'm now about to try out a g22 and see how I like 40. It's all about what you're most deadly with.

 

[g00n24]

Holy thread resurrection!!!
I'll play the 9 vs .45 game. One of the Oral maxillofacial surgery instructors for my school was giving a lecture on trauma and facial reconstruction. He had some great images of people with their faces ripped apart by birdshot and what have you.

There was one with a kid (well 20 something) that had a .45 ball round lodged in his left TMJ. Knocked out all his teeth in the maxilla on that side, so it probably entered close to the front of the mouth and was deflected off the teeth and lodged in the joint. I wouldn't think teeth could deflect a 230 grain projectile but I guess stranger things have happened.

 

[rhino]

There was one with a kid (well 20 something) that had a .45 ball round lodged in his left TMJ. Knocked out all his teeth in the maxilla on that side, so it probably entered close to the front of the mouth and was deflected off the teeth and lodged in the joint. I wouldn't think teeth could deflect a 230 grain projectile but I guess stranger things have happened.

Teeth can deflect centerfire rifle rounds as well.

 

[g00n24]

.

 

[88E30M50]

We should all just start carrying 10mm. Everyone knows a single hit will instantly vaporize your target.

Man, that's a gross exaggeration. A hit with 10mm will only make them burst into flames. Stop spreading bad information, a 10mm hit will not vaporize them. You still have the ashes to deal with once they burn up. Geeezzz

 

[Span24]

As a well respected firearms instructor once told me, "If your (close range) opponent has a shotgun, its time to retreat. Hell, even the Police don't want to stare down a splatter cannon!". I have remembered that every day since!

 

[alabasterjar]

+1 this. armed with a firearm that you can comfortably & confidently shoot is infinitely better than being armed with a gun you are afraid to shoot.

 

[Redhorse]

Well this makes me feel MUCH more comfortable with my .32 acp now. I was about to ditch it, get a .380, and spend a bunch on .380 shells when I have about 2200 .32s and like the .32. I also like the .38 but I can't pocket carry it like I can a .32. .38 is actually my favorite caliber but I need something I can pocket carry that won't print like my snubby.

 

[TheDude]

Good situational awareness will hopefully keep me from finding out ....which caliber is better.

 

[Redhorse]

4 year old thread revival? Worth it to read that a 9mm is a .45 set on stun.

On a side note, when did "operator" cease to be a little old lady who helped you make phone calls and become synonymous with fighter?

Lol. This thread smells of decay.

Ill keep it alive!

I agree with the common caliber thing, that's why I like a .357. I don't necessary believe I need a magnum caliber but a .357 will also shoot a .38 and it seems pretty popular.

 

[GTM]

Teeth can deflect centerfire rifle rounds as well.

Wow, I guess a lot of people in my community have been shot in the mouth.

 

[Span24]

Wow, I guess a lot of people in my community have been shot in the mouth.

...MULTIPLE times!