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Camping/Hiking Rifle
- Thread starter A 7.62 Exodus
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Sure I have an AR15, but it's a little on the heavy side, and I'd rather not have the cops called on me while camping for a scary black rifle. I'm missing a good bolt action rifle in my safe anyway, so I figured I'd poll the hive mind"
Did you learn to take excerpts and quotes from CNN? Directly said he didn't want to carry am AR, and wants a bolt gun. But feel free to tell all of the experienced dangerous game hikers and hunters how wrong they are.
I have told you that you are wrong. I really dont care what level of expert you think you are...when people say stuff like "...the AR cant be used in the wilderness and the AR isnt powerful enough to kill a bear..." I'm going to call BS.
I can also back up my claims with actual real world FACTS. I can also list a dozen other false myths in this thread, many of those falsehoods came from you.
If he doesnt want to carry a scary EBR, he should carry a sidearm he is familiar with and mace...as many people said. If he isnt familiar with any other firearm..then he shouldnt be carrying a firearm at all for self defense especially a Bolt action.
I'd sooner agree the anti-bear army 12ga is best over a bolt action or even a lever action when you are talking about not knowing anything about the firearm.
mrrogers91
Plinker
i am by no means an expert. but a friend and i have been planning a wilderness trip. we have purchased a henry lever action 45lc and taurus judge snub as our sidearms. same ammo makes things easier...
Was never said in any of my posts ever if you are going to come at me come correct. I only said it wouldn't be a good first choice for a reasonable list of reasons that seem to be the consensus of everyone, including in the original post. I even recommended a caliber in a bolt gun available in ar15's. Maybe a reread is in order.
Sounds like a good plan. I always wanted a Judge. Get this...California says they are ASSAULT WEAPONS...LMBO!!! any firearm that shoots shot shells with a rotating cylinder is an AW.
If I go camping I like to carry a Draco as my sidearm and an AK47 as my longarm...same magazine same ammo... hehehe
I hiked around AK last April and carried a Shockwave (with slugs) & a S&W 44 Mag. It was TOO heavy. I eventually left the shockwave behind and just carried the 44 Mag in a chest rig. If I had to do it again, & I might next spring, I'd consider carrying a lever gun.
Bolt action??? Naw. 458 SOCOM AR15 = maybe.
Bolt action??? Naw. 458 SOCOM AR15 = maybe.
[FONT=&]I have no ill-will toward you. I am not trying to bash, flame or mock you. You are simply repeating the hogwash I have heard for nearly 30 years from Hunters who dont know any better.
GGreen statements;
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]1-[/FONT]I never said AR15's were military only and in fact I say they are not at all suited for military use.
Fact- The AR15 has been by far the best choice for armed conflict in the past 30+ years. Light weight, adaptable, caliber configurable, easy to maintain, manufacture and care for. Its accuracy is beyond what the average Troop could need and when specialized it is perfectly suited to extreme accuracy needs. To date , no other long arm has come close fulfilling the entire requirements of a General Troop issued firearm as well as being able to adapt to specialized needs. Some have come close, but where and when those other firearms shine over the AR, they are seriously lacking in other areas. Overall the other Offerings just wouldn't cut it in todays General Issue Long arm. 1,000s of people train in Carbine Classes learning the basic and advanced use of the AR15 every year. Many people attend those classes with "other" firearms and some learn the hard way their choice isnt the best other choice over a simple Ar15.
2-They are not ideal wilderness survival rifle
FACT- Most if not all Special Forces carry AR15s into remote and inhospitable areas for extended times. Most if not all DEA Interdiction Agents stationed in South America carry AR15s. They routinely patrol for days without problems. I was issued an M16A1 (AR15A2) in Honduras. Almost all Rangers, Delta, SEAL and Conta Fighters I saw carried AR15 type firearms, as well as AK47s and even a few SKS and AUG firearms... funny I never saw a bolt action carried by standard team members.
3-They also have some major downfalls when it comes to foreign objects causing stoppages.
FACT- The AR15 type firearm is just as capable as any other firearm out there. This lie has been exposed as such on Youtube and on the various firearms forums for YEARS now...its just not true. Most Carbine Classes expose this lie right out of the gate day 1.
4-An ar15, is not ideal and has drawbacks that keep it from being something i'd recommend to a person who hikes in dangerous wilderness. Reliability, weight, power, and adaptability give all the bonuses to bolt guns
FACT- repeating a myth doesnt make it true. A Bolt gun has ZERO adaptability. I'm not sure you understand the meaning of that word. The Average AR15 Carbine weighs...7.5 lbs with a full 30rd magazine. The Average Bolt gun chambered in .223 weighs 7lbs WITHOUT a scope and only carries under 10 rounds. Pound for Pound the AR15 weighs LESS...not more. The Ar15 also has a retractable stock making it smaller and more readily stored when being carried. The average length of a Bolt action longarm is 40+ inches most go past 43" And AR15 carbine is 32" A Bolt action carbine is 36"...again the AR15 is smaller.
these were your first myths... lets more on to your next few...
5- AR15s are not M16's and never will be
fact- The M16XX and M4XX are AR15s... The AR15 is NOT an M16 or M4 if its NOT in the Military arsenal. The M16 / M4 are simply designations given to the AR15s sold to the military. The Military designates all items it has in stock and seldom uses common vernacular. Do you think a Ford Ranger pickup sold to the military stops being a Ford Ranger pickup when they re-name it?
6-But now that you live in a free state please pack up a 3 day bag with all your hiking gear and an AR15 and hike across Hoosier Nat'l then on the way back to your car swap it for a scout rifle and report back to us with which one was easier to carry through the woods.
FACT- what I can or cant do doesnt alter the fact of what is and has been done by THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF TROOPS FOR 30+ FREAKING YEARS... Yes I have spent WEEKS in the wilderness with an AR15 as my one and ONLY firearms and I had no issues. No one said a scout rifle COULDNT be used...you are the one saying a certain firearm cant...
7-Ar's rattle, have sharp edges, lots of catchy points, weigh multiple pounds more, could be illegal if you cross a state line while hiking, are heavy, most have metal or black plastic that gets hot as hell or cold enough to frost over. Have multiple points of failure if dropped or for debris to enter.
FACTS- all rifles can have snag points, its all in how you address your firearm. We just proved you wrong on the weight thing... and the multiple points of debris entering...I'm not sure if you carry an airsoft or a real AR15, but I'm not sure where you get that? So your Bolt action doesnt have a breach, ejection chamber opening or barrel opening? And these are real firearms right???? Again the multiple points of failure has been proven false over and over and over again...its just not true.
8- Scout Rifles---no operating system points of failure if dropped in glue then sand. Oh and they weigh half of what an AR does
FACT---Holy BS Batman... so please show me the Scout rifle that weighs 3.5 lbs with ammo and aiming system PLUS glue and sand cant cause a stoppage on...I'll wait.
9-The real problem isn't the animal you see from 75 yards it's those Cubs you Walk up on while looking at the pretty sunrise and Mom is sitting about 10yards away and decides to charge
FACT- A Bolt action gets you 1 maybe 2 shots off at a charging bear... an AR15 gets you 10 in the same time frame. A Polar Bear was killed charging from 20 feet with an AR15...the Hunter got 7 shots off and it dropped dead at his feet. He was charged with illegal hunting and had to prove it was self defense.
so you can either admit you passed on some serious FUDD here and dont really know what you are talking about or continue to bash a weapon you clearly know nothing about.
GGreen statements;
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]1-[/FONT]I never said AR15's were military only and in fact I say they are not at all suited for military use.
Fact- The AR15 has been by far the best choice for armed conflict in the past 30+ years. Light weight, adaptable, caliber configurable, easy to maintain, manufacture and care for. Its accuracy is beyond what the average Troop could need and when specialized it is perfectly suited to extreme accuracy needs. To date , no other long arm has come close fulfilling the entire requirements of a General Troop issued firearm as well as being able to adapt to specialized needs. Some have come close, but where and when those other firearms shine over the AR, they are seriously lacking in other areas. Overall the other Offerings just wouldn't cut it in todays General Issue Long arm. 1,000s of people train in Carbine Classes learning the basic and advanced use of the AR15 every year. Many people attend those classes with "other" firearms and some learn the hard way their choice isnt the best other choice over a simple Ar15.
2-They are not ideal wilderness survival rifle
FACT- Most if not all Special Forces carry AR15s into remote and inhospitable areas for extended times. Most if not all DEA Interdiction Agents stationed in South America carry AR15s. They routinely patrol for days without problems. I was issued an M16A1 (AR15A2) in Honduras. Almost all Rangers, Delta, SEAL and Conta Fighters I saw carried AR15 type firearms, as well as AK47s and even a few SKS and AUG firearms... funny I never saw a bolt action carried by standard team members.
3-They also have some major downfalls when it comes to foreign objects causing stoppages.
FACT- The AR15 type firearm is just as capable as any other firearm out there. This lie has been exposed as such on Youtube and on the various firearms forums for YEARS now...its just not true. Most Carbine Classes expose this lie right out of the gate day 1.
4-An ar15, is not ideal and has drawbacks that keep it from being something i'd recommend to a person who hikes in dangerous wilderness. Reliability, weight, power, and adaptability give all the bonuses to bolt guns
FACT- repeating a myth doesnt make it true. A Bolt gun has ZERO adaptability. I'm not sure you understand the meaning of that word. The Average AR15 Carbine weighs...7.5 lbs with a full 30rd magazine. The Average Bolt gun chambered in .223 weighs 7lbs WITHOUT a scope and only carries under 10 rounds. Pound for Pound the AR15 weighs LESS...not more. The Ar15 also has a retractable stock making it smaller and more readily stored when being carried. The average length of a Bolt action longarm is 40+ inches most go past 43" And AR15 carbine is 32" A Bolt action carbine is 36"...again the AR15 is smaller.
these were your first myths... lets more on to your next few...
5- AR15s are not M16's and never will be
fact- The M16XX and M4XX are AR15s... The AR15 is NOT an M16 or M4 if its NOT in the Military arsenal. The M16 / M4 are simply designations given to the AR15s sold to the military. The Military designates all items it has in stock and seldom uses common vernacular. Do you think a Ford Ranger pickup sold to the military stops being a Ford Ranger pickup when they re-name it?
6-But now that you live in a free state please pack up a 3 day bag with all your hiking gear and an AR15 and hike across Hoosier Nat'l then on the way back to your car swap it for a scout rifle and report back to us with which one was easier to carry through the woods.
FACT- what I can or cant do doesnt alter the fact of what is and has been done by THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF TROOPS FOR 30+ FREAKING YEARS... Yes I have spent WEEKS in the wilderness with an AR15 as my one and ONLY firearms and I had no issues. No one said a scout rifle COULDNT be used...you are the one saying a certain firearm cant...
7-Ar's rattle, have sharp edges, lots of catchy points, weigh multiple pounds more, could be illegal if you cross a state line while hiking, are heavy, most have metal or black plastic that gets hot as hell or cold enough to frost over. Have multiple points of failure if dropped or for debris to enter.
FACTS- all rifles can have snag points, its all in how you address your firearm. We just proved you wrong on the weight thing... and the multiple points of debris entering...I'm not sure if you carry an airsoft or a real AR15, but I'm not sure where you get that? So your Bolt action doesnt have a breach, ejection chamber opening or barrel opening? And these are real firearms right???? Again the multiple points of failure has been proven false over and over and over again...its just not true.
8- Scout Rifles---no operating system points of failure if dropped in glue then sand. Oh and they weigh half of what an AR does
FACT---Holy BS Batman... so please show me the Scout rifle that weighs 3.5 lbs with ammo and aiming system PLUS glue and sand cant cause a stoppage on...I'll wait.
9-The real problem isn't the animal you see from 75 yards it's those Cubs you Walk up on while looking at the pretty sunrise and Mom is sitting about 10yards away and decides to charge
FACT- A Bolt action gets you 1 maybe 2 shots off at a charging bear... an AR15 gets you 10 in the same time frame. A Polar Bear was killed charging from 20 feet with an AR15...the Hunter got 7 shots off and it dropped dead at his feet. He was charged with illegal hunting and had to prove it was self defense.
so you can either admit you passed on some serious FUDD here and dont really know what you are talking about or continue to bash a weapon you clearly know nothing about.
Welcome to Ingo. Want a recommendation that isn't an ar15, go somewhere else. operators only use M16's and thousands of experienced wildermen are fudds.
Still waiting for where I said they couldn't be used, or where I said they weren't suitable wilderness rifles? I said they were heavy and had more points of failure than bolt guns. I stand by it especially being the op mentioned those as reasons he was looking for other options. I really don't know why you're so hostile. This is a forum where we discuss and generally enjoy a variety of firearms. And if you think I'm an AR or ak hater you should really read around.
Still waiting for where I said they couldn't be used, or where I said they weren't suitable wilderness rifles? I said they were heavy and had more points of failure than bolt guns. I stand by it especially being the op mentioned those as reasons he was looking for other options. I really don't know why you're so hostile. This is a forum where we discuss and generally enjoy a variety of firearms. And if you think I'm an AR or ak hater you should really read around.
wow...must be beer night...I ...just...quoted...you...word...for... word...
I'm not hostile...not sure why you are using those terms. It appears you are trying to make it seem like I am the making stuff up so I get nailed by a Mod. You are just spreading false misleading information about a firearm.
If someone came in and said the Ar15 is far superior as a Hunting firearm then any Bolt rifle... I would be just as aggressive in calling BS on that. I am sure you would as well. So why am I the bad guy when you are doing it in a SELF DEFENSE thread?
I think it's a hammer/nail thing. When you've only hunted two-legged upright critters, then that's all you know.
Lowly hunters of game for food have the same small brains as the animals they seek.
The other totally overlooked part of the self defense mentioned by the OP was perception. Perception of others to look at him as a mundane lowly hunter rather than a potentially dangerous wannabe operator toting a scary "automatic weapon."
Lowly hunters of game for food have the same small brains as the animals they seek.
The other totally overlooked part of the self defense mentioned by the OP was perception. Perception of others to look at him as a mundane lowly hunter rather than a potentially dangerous wannabe operator toting a scary "automatic weapon."
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I think it's a hammer/nail thing. When you've only hunted two-legged upright critters, then that's all you know.
Lowly hunters of game for food have the same small brains as the animals they seek.
The other totally overlooked part of the self defense mentioned by the OP was perception. Perception of others to look at him as a mundane lowly hunter rather than a potentially dangerous wannabe operator.
Lets flip this script and see if it flys...
The OP is= Im going on a Hunting trip for White Tail. Its a two day trip 1 night camping near our Tree stands. I own several nice Bolt guns. A Scout Rifle and a Savage Axis 20" in 308. I was thinking about adding an AR15 into my safe. I dont own one at all. I was looking to get a 6.5CM or a .300BO with Leupold ARMod-1 4-12X50mm scope. What do you guys say.
Now enter a non-Hunting JJFII who then says (in response to people saying an AR isnt the best Hunting rifle)... Nonsense!!!! AR15s are far superior when chambered in those calibers to any Bolt gun. Bolt gun stocks are wood and expand and contract with the weather making them crappy for accuracy. The Bolt guns all need specialized rails to mount optics on adding a HUGE cost to the optic, when all ARs come standard with rails for easy mounting. Bolt guns are not set up from close range, they are only good for extreme long range and since you are in a tree stand both of your bolt guns would suck..you need an AR15!
Now please tell me you guys wouldnt jump down my throat laughing your butts off at the shear STUPIDITY coming from me... well for 30 years that is the type of poop the Ar15 community has heard from Bolt gun Hunters.
This is my last post in reply to you man if you want to continue you can pm me. The thread is camping/hiking rifle. Specifically said no to ARs in the original post. Specifically wanted a bolt gun. Why do you feel the need to belittle everyone who has different experience and opinion and that offers suggestions based on the parameters laid out?. No one has argued that ARs are not good and capable rifles, but they are not perfect for the asked purpose. Why would you care if he purchased a different gun when he has the Grail gun? Do you have capitalism? People are perfectly capable of defending themselves with other than AR's and that's fine. there are regular classes teaching tactical and defensive scout rifle by some very operator individuals. A scout rifle is far more discrete than ar15s when hiking along side the less informed who only know an AR from the news.
Purple implied...
Purple implied...
Please tell us ...... who do you advise ? who do you instruct ?
I have a Marlin 1894 in 44 Mag that I really like. Easy to shoot well and the bonus is you can carry a 44 Mag revolver and interchange ammo. The revolver I usually carry is a Ruger Redhawk 4 inch. It's a very workable combination.
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