Camping/Hiking Rifle

[bwframe]

...as an Instructor...

Since you've brought this up more than once, please give us more details on your history as an instructor. Links, etc would be great so hunters can understand.

Rifle, pistol, medical, wilderness instruction? Links to sign up...

 

[rhino]

Wonder if there is any critter in North America that a well aimed shot from a .308 wouldn't neutralize?

Doubt it, but there aren't guarantees. That's why 19 more rounds is a good thing.

When G-Man was working in Alaska for retired SF guy as a guide and trainer, his mentor (the SF guy) kept an HK91 handy for emergencies. The actually did get charged by a big brown bear once and the HK solved the problem. Defense, not hunting.

 

[Ggreen]

Dave Lauck is my favorite gunsmith, he is not cheap, but his stuff is awesome. I put my money where my mouth is with Dave and had him build me one of his slr ak reworks and it's worth every penny. If budget weren't an issue or if I were planning an extended wilder excursion I'd pick up one of his Wilderness Rifles. Very well thought out and everything he builds will be a highly capable weapon platform. Being budget minded i'd go with a ruger American in 300blk with my can in my bag, or in 450bm without a can, I would put an SWFA 1-4 or 1-8x optic on it. I'd keep it shouldered at 1x to be able to work it like a red dot while the magnification would be great in a survival hunting situation if things went south. The American will let you carry your ammo in magazines for ease and they are around 6 lbs. Dave Lauck's rifle is 6.5lbs. I know my ddm4a1 weighs in the upper 9 lb range with magazine and the acog on top, I have an AR pistol in 300blk that wouldn't be a bad option with a law folder packed away in the bag and a hand cannon at the ready on your chest or in a really well made holster with a proper belt to keep in tight and secure if you should fall.

I hadn't thought about the new 14" AOW shotguns, but they sound like a good option. My new benelli m4 is heavier than the bolt options, and heavier than the DDM4A1 (without mags or optics), but it's a well thought out design with minimal snag points outside of the pistol grip. I'd feel pretty safe toting the benelli, but I wouldn't think it would be pleasurable.

 

[JJFII]

Since you've brought this up more than once, please give us more details on your history as an instructor. Links, etc would be great so hunters can understand.

Rifle, pistol, medical, wilderness instruction? Links to sign up...

wow..really?

I actually only mentioned it once and referenced what I said once...As a person who teaches things to others..LOL.. I was wondering why people think an item magically bestows proficiency on the owner.

Now I found out I was wrong and the OP does know how to use a Bolt action, but up to that point it appeared he didnt and was asking for advise on a firearm to use for defense that he had no experience with.


I typed out a whole troll post...but realized you guys take this stuff way way too serious. Its more comedy to me, I was going to copy/paste Gecko45's old post....

I dont offer any training. Thats not my gig. I never said I was, but I still have those skills. Once you learn critical thinking, its hard to think stupidly again.

So I got out of the Military in like 92. I worked in aerospace but got laid off. I took a job as a night security guard to pay the bills. A fellow Vet I met while in Honduras saw me in a store and asked why I was doing security work. He was a Supervisor at a Place called Bord-Warner Security. His department provided security training to Executives and their families traveling overseas. He sent me to a school run by Burns Security. The two companies are really the same. I had an ID for both Companies. The class taught about different customs in other countries focusing on what would get a person in trouble culturally, not just legally. It was our departments job to train families on security concerns both personally and company wise. We also taught some execs on how to conceal carry and use a firearm.

I taught several classes. Most of which was small groups of 5 to 10 family members max. A few times myself and others went to an execs home and advised on security features. This was after the tech guys wired a home. We focused on the people, not the equipment. During one of these trips, I helped a tech installing a security camera and the Exec thought I was some sort of expert. I was requested to supervise several other installations at other exec homes and family security meetings. Basically my gift to gab got me promoted.

Burns and BorgWarner got into a financial jam and my whole department was cut to near zero. The department didnt bring in money it was an internal expenditure and when you are looking to cut back...thats what goes first. Most of the guys went back to uniform mall-ninja security.

I went back to aerospace and did security again part time...and again I met a guy who got me a job as a shoplift detective. Its an easy gig, bust kids stealing candy...LOL bust 15 year old chics stealing eye liner... Funny... Boys stole pens and candy, girls stole eye liner.

On that job I happened to catch the eye of a Regional Manager. We talked a bit and he realized I had specialized training. He called my boss and I was transferred to his portion of Internal security. He was retired FBI. He was one of the guys who busted that chic who was going to kill President Ford or something like that. Her name was Squeeky something...I dont remember the whole story. I'm sure its on Google.

So he started training me on internal investigations and interviewing people who have been stealing from the company. Its an art form dealing with more math then you think. His primary rule was no interview took place unless you could only ask questions you already had the answer to. I arrested a few dozen cashiers before he allowed me to arrest Assistant Managers and even a Store Manager.

I eventually took over my own region. The company was sold and we had a name change. The new company took this level of security extremely serious. I joined ASIS, I had to attend a certain number of seminars and take many courses. Most of which were offered by a company called John E. Reed. They specialize in interviewing suspects. Look them up if you want.

I left this company for a start-up company by a friend. It was a big drama decision but I'm not getting into that. This new company taught armed security officers on legal aspects of pulling the trigger. We held class room training on suspect control and securing crime scenes before police arrived. My class focused on protecting the companies butt. Many many armed security guys are wannabe cops. They think Cops wanna be their friends and they can go over board getting the company in trouble and not just civil lawsuits from suspect, but legally if police see / hear stuff they dont like. As a Regional LP Manager I had several Uniform and plain clothes officers actually arrested by responding Police. As a young Investigator myself I had an Officer threaten to arrest me when he responded to pick up an employee I just arrested for theft.

I also taught critical thinking to security officers. This was a class John E Reed taught to me. Its kinda funny because I see several post here which need critical thinking... LIKE ASKING ME FOR A BIO as if my Bio changes reality in some way...LMBO.

A guy washing dishes for a living tells INGO the M16A2 has been used in combat and in the wilderness for 30+ years but because he washes dishes for a living, the statement isnt true...you guys kill me!!! A hunter tells INGO the M16 isnt an AR15 and the AR15 cant be used in the wilderness and its gospel

Back to my bio... So that company went bust because the owner cared more about trying to get on camera in movies instead of organizing his company. I met several famous people, watched many movies where firearms were used get filmed because the props were held by that guy. Part of this guys business was renting firearms to prop houses.

I went back into Aerospace, ran several multi-million dollar programs for Grumman and Raytheon, got laid off again, worked for more companies doing tech stuff, now I'm an old fat guy in Indiana working for a world wide manufacturer in field service. They moved me out here to open a service center in Indianapolis.

Now that you read a good portion of my life bio... please explain in manufacturing terms how the many NATO Countries use the M16 when it cant be used in the wilderness... Please give me a list of Countries that issue bolt action rifles to special forces because M4s cant be used in the wilderness. And PLEASE note I'm not asking for your bio because FACTS dont care who is telling them..they speak for themselves. I dont care if you are an ex-Army-SEAL super cool operator... if you state the M4 can't be used outside I'm gonna call BS unless you provide FACTS...

Does the AR15 (M16 and M4) have known issues...OH HECK YES... do that make it a poor choice for self defense..oh HECK NO.

 

[Alpo]

Hey JJ? Didja ever consider you might be overqualified for this website?

 

[JJFII]

Hey JJ? Didja ever consider you might be overqualified for this website?

I just came here to talk about guns and gun stuff.

Sure I push a bit when I read stuff that isnt true about my favorite weapon, but if a person cant debate and back up what they say, then they shouldnt say it.

What I see here is an attempt at character assassination because the facts dont line up with a narrative.

Steve Crowder set up a table in front of a Texas University. with a sign, "Rape Culture is a myth, change my mind."

The first girl to sit down listed off a bunch of BS and when Steve disassembled her argument with fact, common sense logic and reason, she started crying and calling for Police to arrest him...

That is what I see here. A guy trying to bait me into a position so Mods will ban me and another guy asking for a bio in an attempt to attack me professionally when my facts have nothing to do with my profession.

 

[Alpo]

You forgot the fable of the young bull and old bull on a hill .....

You might remember before it's too late.

 

[JJFII]

You forgot the fable of the young bull and old bull on a hill .....

You might remember before it's too late.

I get it..my passion is my weakness is my undoing.

I'm standing down.

 

[rhino]

I just came here to talk about guns and gun stuff.

Sure I push a bit when I read stuff that isnt true about my favorite weapon, but if a person cant debate and back up what they say, then they shouldnt say it.

What I see here is an attempt at character assassination because the facts dont line up with a narrative.

Steve Crowder set up a table in front of a Texas University. with a sign, "Rape Culture is a myth, change my mind."

The first girl to sit down listed off a bunch of BS and when Steve disassembled her argument with fact, common sense logic and reason, she started crying and calling for Police to arrest him...

That is what I see here. A guy trying to bait me into a position so Mods will ban me and another guy asking for a bio in an attempt to attack me professionally when my facts have nothing to do with my profession.

Or, it could be a lot simpler than that. It's possible they're just curious about your background and how that shaped not only your opinions, but how you present them to others.

Based on what I've seen in this topic, if you actually think someone is trying to bait you into getting banned, you might want to consider your own words about taking this too seriously.

 

[bwframe]

wow..really?

I actually only mentioned it once and referenced what I said once...As a person who teaches things to others..LOL.. I was wondering why people think an item magically bestows proficiency on the owner.

Now I found out I was wrong and the OP does know how to use a Bolt action, but up to that point it appeared he didnt and was asking for advise on a firearm to use for defense that he had no experience with.


I typed out a whole troll post...but realized you guys take this stuff way way too serious. Its more comedy to me, I was going to copy/paste Gecko45's old post....

I dont offer any training. Thats not my gig. I never said I was, but I still have those skills. Once you learn critical thinking, its hard to think stupidly again.

So I got out of the Military in like 92. I worked in aerospace but got laid off. I took a job as a night security guard to pay the bills. A fellow Vet I met while in Honduras saw me in a store and asked why I was doing security work. He was a Supervisor at a Place called Bord-Warner Security. His department provided security training to Executives and their families traveling overseas. He sent me to a school run by Burns Security. The two companies are really the same. I had an ID for both Companies. The class taught about different customs in other countries focusing on what would get a person in trouble culturally, not just legally. It was our departments job to train families on security concerns both personally and company wise. We also taught some execs on how to conceal carry and use a firearm.

I taught several classes. Most of which was small groups of 5 to 10 family members max. A few times myself and others went to an execs home and advised on security features. This was after the tech guys wired a home. We focused on the people, not the equipment. During one of these trips, I helped a tech installing a security camera and the Exec thought I was some sort of expert. I was requested to supervise several other installations at other exec homes and family security meetings. Basically my gift to gab got me promoted.

Burns and BorgWarner got into a financial jam and my whole department was cut to near zero. The department didnt bring in money it was an internal expenditure and when you are looking to cut back...thats what goes first. Most of the guys went back to uniform mall-ninja security.

I went back to aerospace and did security again part time...and again I met a guy who got me a job as a shoplift detective. Its an easy gig, bust kids stealing candy...LOL bust 15 year old chics stealing eye liner... Funny... Boys stole pens and candy, girls stole eye liner.

On that job I happened to catch the eye of a Regional Manager. We talked a bit and he realized I had specialized training. He called my boss and I was transferred to his portion of Internal security. He was retired FBI. He was one of the guys who busted that chic who was going to kill President Ford or something like that. Her name was Squeeky something...I dont remember the whole story. I'm sure its on Google.

So he started training me on internal investigations and interviewing people who have been stealing from the company. Its an art form dealing with more math then you think. His primary rule was no interview took place unless you could only ask questions you already had the answer to. I arrested a few dozen cashiers before he allowed me to arrest Assistant Managers and even a Store Manager.

I eventually took over my own region. The company was sold and we had a name change. The new company took this level of security extremely serious. I joined ASIS, I had to attend a certain number of seminars and take many courses. Most of which were offered by a company called John E. Reed. They specialize in interviewing suspects. Look them up if you want.

I left this company for a start-up company by a friend. It was a big drama decision but I'm not getting into that. This new company taught armed security officers on legal aspects of pulling the trigger. We held class room training on suspect control and securing crime scenes before police arrived. My class focused on protecting the companies butt. Many many armed security guys are wannabe cops. They think Cops wanna be their friends and they can go over board getting the company in trouble and not just civil lawsuits from suspect, but legally if police see / hear stuff they dont like. As a Regional LP Manager I had several Uniform and plain clothes officers actually arrested by responding Police. As a young Investigator myself I had an Officer threaten to arrest me when he responded to pick up an employee I just arrested for theft.

I also taught critical thinking to security officers. This was a class John E Reed taught to me. Its kinda funny because I see several post here which need critical thinking... LIKE ASKING ME FOR A BIO as if my Bio changes reality in some way...LMBO.

A guy washing dishes for a living tells INGO the M16A2 has been used in combat and in the wilderness for 30+ years but because he washes dishes for a living, the statement isnt true...you guys kill me!!! A hunter tells INGO the M16 isnt an AR15 and the AR15 cant be used in the wilderness and its gospel

Back to my bio... So that company went bust because the owner cared more about trying to get on camera in movies instead of organizing his company. I met several famous people, watched many movies where firearms were used get filmed because the props were held by that guy. Part of this guys business was renting firearms to prop houses.

I went back into Aerospace, ran several multi-million dollar programs for Grumman and Raytheon, got laid off again, worked for more companies doing tech stuff, now I'm an old fat guy in Indiana working for a world wide manufacturer in field service. They moved me out here to open a service center in Indianapolis.

Now that you read a good portion of my life bio... please explain in manufacturing terms how the many NATO Countries use the M16 when it cant be used in the wilderness... Please give me a list of Countries that issue bolt action rifles to special forces because M4s cant be used in the wilderness. And PLEASE note I'm not asking for your bio because FACTS dont care who is telling them..they speak for themselves. I dont care if you are an ex-Army-SEAL super cool operator... if you state the M4 can't be used outside I'm gonna call BS unless you provide FACTS...

Does the AR15 (M16 and M4) have known issues...OH HECK YES... do that make it a poor choice for self defense..oh HECK NO.

Like you said first...


...wow...

 

[NyleRN]

I would suggest checking with your local state and national parks to see if firearms are permitted, especially any long rifles.

I briefly looked at Big Bend and it appeared you can carry (I’m assuming handgun only) with some stipulations.

my suggestion would be bear mace, and if you can carry a pistol, a Glock in 10mm. Both would be more easily and rapidly accessible, and less menacing to other outdoors enthusiasts.

I'm late to this thread but I'll echo a pistol in a nice powerful cartridge that will take down anything 2 or 4 legged in your AO. Especially when camping and hiking. I do a lot both and have a long gun slung while hiking with gear SUCKS. Even peddling around the campsite. A glock in 10mm is nice as it will kill most all things in the south, holds 16 rounds, and you can comfortably tote it around in an OWB holster. I carry my G40 in 10mm while camping/hiking. It's great woods medicine

 

[NyleRN]

Dave Lauck is my favorite gunsmith, he is not cheap, but his stuff is awesome. I put my money where my mouth is with Dave and had him build me one of his slr ak reworks and it's worth every penny. If budget weren't an issue or if I were planning an extended wilder excursion I'd pick up one of his Wilderness Rifles. Very well thought out and everything he builds will be a highly capable weapon platform. Being budget minded i'd go with a ruger American in 300blk with my can in my bag, or in 450bm without a can, I would put an SWFA 1-4 or 1-8x optic on it. I'd keep it shouldered at 1x to be able to work it like a red dot while the magnification would be great in a survival hunting situation if things went south. The American will let you carry your ammo in magazines for ease and they are around 6 lbs. Dave Lauck's rifle is 6.5lbs. I know my ddm4a1 weighs in the upper 9 lb range with magazine and the acog on top, I have an AR pistol in 300blk that wouldn't be a bad option with a law folder packed away in the bag and a hand cannon at the ready on your chest or in a really well made holster with a proper belt to keep in tight and secure if you should fall.

I hadn't thought about the new 14" AOW shotguns, but they sound like a good option. My new benelli m4 is heavier than the bolt options, and heavier than the DDM4A1 (without mags or optics), but it's a well thought out design with minimal snag points outside of the pistol grip. I'd feel pretty safe toting the benelli, but I wouldn't think it would be pleasurable.

I think you're WAY out of context here. OP context is a weapon to carry while camping/hiking for defense purposes not hunting game. You're talking about adding 6-7lbs in rifle plus another 17oz in optics plus 18oz suppressors. I can tell you've never went hiking. Weight is your enemy when hiking. I just got back from a 2 day hike in Red River Gorge. We hiked 11 miles in a 10hr period during those 48hrs. My pack was around 28-30lbs. I was exhausted and I do this quite a bit.

 

[Ggreen]

I think you're WAY out of context here. OP context is a weapon to carry while camping/hiking for defense purposes not hunting game. You're talking about adding 6-7lbs in rifle plus another 17oz in optics plus 18oz suppressors. I can tell you've never went hiking. Weight is your enemy when hiking. I just got back from a 2 day hike in Red River Gorge. We hiked 11 miles in a 10hr period during those 48hrs. My pack was around 28-30lbs. I was exhausted and I do this quite a bit.

He asked for a bolt gun.

And I have finished the Bataan Memorial Deathmarch, in 2007. Full marathon in sand/dirt/gravel/pavement up and around a small mountain on white sands missile range in military heavy category Uniform, boots, and 35lbs in a pack. I understand that weight is pain, I also understand that when someone says they want a bolt gun to hike with, I will suggest a bolt gun to hike with.

 

[dbg326]

A friend just picked up a CZ527 chambered in 7.62x39... Beautiful gun, fantastic trigger, and a very handy size/weight. I can't speak to what the cartridge would do against larger game, but if it were me shopping, I'd be looking at something similar, possibly bumping up to .308 in something like the Ruger Gunsite Scout.

 

[JJFII]

Like you said first...


...wow...

I agree... LOL

.... and I forgot to say my main job here in Indianapolis is to train up to 4 guys to work in this area for our Company. Our Field techs work from home. There is no place to show up except Customers places of business or homes. There is no boss looking over your shoulder...its you and you alone making the decisions. I train the new hires to to do that. So while its not security or firearms related, its Instruction and Education.

 

[bstewrat3]

I have never felt the need for anything more than a single shot T/C in all of my dangerous game hunts. 6.5JDJ has taken both of cape buffalo,my elephant and an interior Alaskan brown bear with one shot. I had to line them up very carefully though. You people take things way too serious.

 

[Hop]

I have never felt the need for anything more than a single shot T/C in all of my dangerous game hunts. 6.5JDJ has taken both of cape buffalo,my elephant and an interior Alaskan brown bear with one shot. I had to line them up very carefully though. You people take things way too serious.

Sometimes you need more than a single shot. Ask the recently eaten guide from Wyoming that was prepping an elk. Wait... Can't ask him. He is bear poo now.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

[rhino]

I have never felt the need for anything more than a single shot T/C in all of my dangerous game hunts. 6.5JDJ has taken both of cape buffalo,my elephant and an interior Alaskan brown bear with one shot. I had to line them up very carefully though. You people take things way too serious.

Hunting and defense are significantly different activities with different needs and consequences for failure.

 

[two70]

I have never felt the need for anything more than a single shot T/C in all of my dangerous game hunts. 6.5JDJ has taken both of cape buffalo,my elephant and an interior Alaskan brown bear with one shot. I had to line them up very carefully though. You people take things way too serious.

Hunting and defense are significantly different activities with different needs and consequences for failure.

I'm pretty sure he was joking since it would be extremely difficult to find those three animals in one location let alone lined up carefully. Plus a 6.5 JDJ wouldn't be legal for 2 of the three animals mentioned. And of course the way to serious comment.

 

[Ggreen]

I'm pretty sure he was joking since it would be extremely difficult to find those three animals in one location let alone lined up carefully. Plus a 6.5 JDJ wouldn't be legal for 2 of the three animals mentioned. And of course the way to serious comment.

I heard they wouldn't let him back in the zoo after this incident tho...