Can I Carry in a BANK?

[Vlad the Impaler]

Title 39, Code of Federal Regulations, Section 232.1(1) states:
Weapons and explosives. Notwithstanding the provisions of any other
law, rule or regulation, no person while on postal property may carry
firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either openly
or concealed, or store same on postal property, except for official​

purposes.

Section 232.1(1) bans the storage or possession of weapons (concealed or otherwise) in an
enclosed postal parking lot, whereas 18 U.S.C. § 930(a) bans simple possession of a firearm in a​

federal facility/building provided the requisite notice is posted as described in § 930(h).

Full text from this 2008 case in Lousiana found here:
http://volokh.com/files/dorosan.pdf

 

[Hammerhead]

I open carry in the PO on National Rd in Columbus at least once a month. Am I going to prison?

They also sell guns there.

They also sell knives, tools, jewelry, games, cameras, etc. Definitely a weird PO.

 

[INGunGuy]

Title 39, Code of Federal Regulations, Section 232.1(1) states:
Weapons and explosives. Notwithstanding the provisions of any other
law, rule or regulation, no person while on postal property may carry
firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either openly
or concealed, or store same on postal property, except for official​

purposes.

Section 232.1(1) bans the storage or possession of weapons (concealed or otherwise) in an
enclosed postal parking lot, whereas 18 U.S.C. § 930(a) bans simple possession of a firearm in a​

federal facility/building provided the requisite notice is posted as described in § 930(h).

Full text from this 2008 case in Lousiana found here:
http://volokh.com/files/dorosan.pdf

Sounds to me like it is time to figure out what the true law really is. I find federal code that allows the carrying of a firearm incident to hunting or other lawful purpose, and you have one from a case in Louisiana. So anyone care to weigh in on this?

INGunGuy


§ 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities

How Current is This?

(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.
(b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.
(c) A person who kills any person in the course of a violation of subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon, or attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be punished as provided in sections 1111, 1112, 1113, and 1117.
(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to— (1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;
(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or
(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

(e) (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal court facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to conduct which is described in paragraph (1) or (2) of subsection (d).

(f) Nothing in this section limits the power of a court of the United States to punish for contempt or to promulgate rules or orders regulating, restricting, or prohibiting the possession of weapons within any building housing such court or any of its proceedings, or upon any grounds appurtenant to such building.
(g) As used in this section: (1) The term “Federal facility” means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.
(2) The term “dangerous weapon” means a weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious bodily injury, except that such term does not include a pocket knife with a blade of less than 21/2 inches in length.
(3) The term “Federal court facility” means the courtroom, judges’ chambers, witness rooms, jury deliberation rooms, attorney conference rooms, prisoner holding cells, offices of the court clerks, the United States attorney, and the United States marshal, probation and parole offices, and adjoining corridors of any court of the United States.

(h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility, and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal court facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility, unless such person had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the case may be.

 

[INGunGuy]

In reading Title 39, Code of Federal Regulations, Section 232. This may pertain ONLY to Postal facilities. And NOT federal facilities.

INGunGuy

 

[eldirector]

Yeah, Title 39 is only Postal Facilities.

Good find. Scrolling down through that mess finds the penalties: up to $50 and/or up to 30 days in jail. I wonder if they take checks...

 

[INGunGuy]

Yeah, Title 39 is only Postal Facilities.

Good find. Scrolling down through that mess finds the penalties: up to $50 and/or up to 30 days in jail. I wonder if they take checks...

So again, since this deals with a post office and NOT federal facilities, then since § 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities allows the carrying in or on a federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes, then carrying in the post office is a no-no, but carrying on federal property is legally allowed...

INGunGuy

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

We lay-people can read and interpret the laws one way...

And Mr. Federal Prosecutor can read and interpret the laws how they want.

Can your lawyer defend "(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes." and "...except for official purposes." ???

That's the issue at hand. Does possessing an Indiana LTCH constitute "lawful purpose" and/or "official purposes".

It's a very sticky wicket.

And, like I said, no one wants to be the test case.

-J-

 

[singlestacksig]

NO bank is insured by the FDIC, the deposit accounts are insured by FDIC, if the building burns down the FDIC has nothing to do with it..
But being insured by FDIC does not make it a Fed building..
In the very rare case that a bank is taken over by FDIC the assets are transfered to another bank before the doors are opened back up..

 

[EnochRoot43]

No... last week the Prez of the bank FLIPPED when a guy came in with a pocket pistol... the handle was sticking out of his pocket.. police called.. (they knew the guy) "Oh HIM!! HAHA he's harmless" but the bank prez said "YEAH HE WILL BE WHEN HE GETS HIS $##$@ GUN BACK IN HIS CAR!!"

i want to see the LAW too...

Care to share what bank this is so that others may avoid having the police called on them?

 

[Phil502]

And putting it inside kinda defeats the purpose, doesn't it?

They want to make sure they employees can see it real good.

 

[golandmark@gmail.com]

Heres a solution for you ...go thru the drive in because I am not sure either...I never go to my local bank though as I bank online....I think it would mean a federal building like a post office or a Air Force Base or something like that...I am not sure but I would not recommend calling the bank and asking can I bring a gun in there? It might not be that well received(LOL)...It is legal to carry your gun to work but if you get caught you the employer will be in their rights to fire you because it is most likely against their policy though it is not illegal...It could also make you ineligible for unemployment compensation as well...

 

[ultraspec]

I find NOWHERE in federal statutes where it is unlawful to carry a firearm into a federal facility...

Here is the federal statute:

§ 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities

How Current is This?

(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.
(b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.
(c) A person who kills any person in the course of a violation of subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon, or attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be punished as provided in sections 1111, 1112, 1113, and 1117.
(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to— (1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;
(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or
(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

(e) (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal court facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to conduct which is described in paragraph (1) or (2) of subsection (d).

(f) Nothing in this section limits the power of a court of the United States to punish for contempt or to promulgate rules or orders regulating, restricting, or prohibiting the possession of weapons within any building housing such court or any of its proceedings, or upon any grounds appurtenant to such building.
(g) As used in this section: (1) The term “Federal facility” means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.
(2) The term “dangerous weapon” means a weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious bodily injury, except that such term does not include a pocket knife with a blade of less than 21/2 inches in length.
(3) The term “Federal court facility” means the courtroom, judges’ chambers, witness rooms, jury deliberation rooms, attorney conference rooms, prisoner holding cells, offices of the court clerks, the United States attorney, and the United States marshal, probation and parole offices, and adjoining corridors of any court of the United States.

(h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility, and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal court facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility, unless such person had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the case may be.

I would like to point out section d subsection 3 where it states that section a shall not apply to

"the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes."


So it sounds to me like if you are carrying a firearm or other dangerous weapon incident to "other lawful purposes" which would be anything as long as you are not breaking another law then there is nothing unlawful about carrying in a federal facility. Now of course, IANAL, and no I didnt stay in a Holiday INN, but from MY understanding of the English language, this is saying that as long as you are carrying lawfully, then there is no breaking of the law.

INGunGuy

Go ahead and let me know how this turns out. You can and will be arrested in federal building and property if you carry into them. If you find doubt in this go to the post office and read the signs. There is a USC about it otherwise they would not be able to fine and arrest people in the post offices. If you want to know the USC go to your local Post office and the sign should have the code on it.

 

[golandmark@gmail.com]

this is an example of poor discretion...you should carry concealed so as not to scare people in my opinion....it is my right to do and say a lot of things but the wisdom of saying or doing them can put me in a bad position

 

[Joe Williams]

I am neither a coward, nor ashamed of my 2A rights, nor ashamed of being a free American. I will not hide my exercise of the rights of a free man if I choose not to do so.

If it scares someone, their weak kneed, scummy cowardice is their problem. They aren't fit to be free, they ask for chains, and glory in them. I will not cater to the fear of such pitiful creatures.

 

[eldirector]

this is an example of poor discretion...you should carry concealed so as not to scare people in my opinion....it is my right to do and say a lot of things but the wisdom of saying or doing them can put me in a bad position

There are a bunch of OC vs. CC threads around here to keep this debate alive. My goal is to scare as many people as possible.

Back on topic:
Bank carry is A-OK in Indiana. Some banks may have policies, but there are no laws.

Post Office carry seems to be a no-go, but still gray area.

Federal Building carry is as open to debate as ever.....

 

[ultraspec]

Ill tell you this from experience. I cannot carry a gun into a federal building even on duty in uniform. I found this out when going to downtown chicago to the dirkson federal building. I was required to disarm and lock it in the secure lockers just inside the secure area. It sucks but thats the way it is. Im very sure that had I tried to continue on with the gun I would have been arrested uniformed cop or not.

 

[ultraspec]

And here is a section of the law enforcement safety officers act that was passed into federal law


The LEOSA overrides state and local laws, but not other federal laws, Thus, LEOSA-qualified individuals must continue to obey federal laws and agency policies that restrict the carrying of concealed firearms in federal buildings and lands.



So unless you guys know something I dont, I would say its a no go.

 

[rfontes]

sure you can, who's gonna know.

 

[ATM]

this is an example of poor discretion...

Maybe for you.

you should carry concealed so as not to scare people in my opinion....

Your opinion of what I should do... not overstepping there, are you?

it is my right to do and say a lot of things but the wisdom of saying or doing them can put me in a bad position

It seems that is the case here. Try picking an easier position to support next time.

 

[JohnLloydScharf]

Show me a law that says you can't.

That's how laws work.

The way laws work is, "Ignorance is no excuse."

However, I suspect there is no law against a concealed carry at a bank:
Concealed Carry In Bank Supported And Encouraged By Management | Gun Blog

No bank should be allowing it if federal law does not and this one does.
It may be a deterent to would-be robbers to know a bank allows it.

Many who make large business deposits of cash have concealed carry permits.