Centerfire rifles using handgun cartridges not allowed for state or public deer

[d.kaufman]

Still a load of BS. In the private sector you make this mistake and you are looking for work, in the public sector you get patted on the back and told to do better next time. Whoever was responsible for editing and updating the hunting guide should be fired. Or an executive action should be taken to provide a temporary fix for the law to match the printed regulations. Hunters education refers to the guide and most will not be privy to the inside information that the C/O's will be operating with. Sound discretion is a BS term meaning "if you feel like ticketing the hunter, do it". If the upper echelon of the DNR was worth their salt they would have had the word out more than a month before the season starts. Seems like a great way to say "we arrested x number of people in 2017 illegally hunting with centerfire rifles on public ground. We do not recommend allowing high power rifles to be used." This needs to be on t.v., radio, newspapers. Like changing a speed limit without changing the signs then telling the highway patrol to enforce the speed limit hidden in the code and not the one posted on the road.

I agree that this is total bs, and like i stated up thread when you get your license they want your email. No reason why they cannot send an email to clarify this situation. I also believe a refund should be in order for those that ask for it. Sure i can use a shotgun but i built a rifle specifically for the rifle season that i now can no longer use due to what im gathering is incompetence! I can say I'm glad i didn't bother buying the bundle this year due to the fact i have some land to hunt less than 5 minutes away(using bow only as it is residential/no firearms allowed) instead of making the trip to JP or Winimac. I would be extremely pi**ed off if i paid for a license i now cant use

 

[Ggreen]

I agree that this is total bs, and like i stated up thread when you get your license they want your email. No reason why they cannot send an email to clarify this situation. I also believe a refund should be in order for those that ask for it. Sure i can use a shotgun but i built a rifle specifically for the rifle season that i now can no longer use due to what im gathering is incompetence! I can say I'm glad i didn't bother buying the bundle this year due to the fact i have some land to hunt less than 5 minutes away(using bow only as it is residential/no firearms allowed) instead of making the trip to JP or Winimac. I would be extremely pi**ed off if i paid for a license i now cant use

This is the first year I've had to hunt public land and I built a 50 Beowulf just for the occasion. I'm supremely pissed. I will be calling my representatives I already emailed. I am also planning on adding the DNR to my morning calls. LOL let someone writing an aircraft maintenance manual make this mistake and see what happens.

 

[Restroyer]

Many people clamored for the legislators to get involved in the High Powered Rifle debate of cartridge legalization. A few people said No be patient and let the DNR continue to expand on the types of ammo allowed. Well the legislators got involved and messed it up. That's why sometimes it's best not to ask the politicians to get involved.

 

[Winamac]

I agree that this is total bs, and like i stated up thread when you get your license they want your email. No reason why they cannot send an email to clarify this situation. I also believe a refund should be in order for those that ask for it. Sure i can use a shotgun but i built a rifle specifically for the rifle season that i now can no longer use due to what im gathering is incompetence! I can say I'm glad i didn't bother buying the bundle this year due to the fact i have some land to hunt less than 5 minutes away(using bow only as it is residential/no firearms allowed) instead of making the trip to JP or Winimac. I would be extremely pi**ed off if i paid for a license i now cant use

I concur with your statement. This is the same Indiana DNR that OVERDREW for the reserve dove hunt (back in September) at the Winamac FWA this year. And yes... myself and approximately 20+ other were the victims of this FUBAR(at the Winamac FWA). They made it all better though, with a confusing e-mail and a $10.00 DNR gift certificate.

 

[Mgderf]

I had a conversation today with a guy that runs a deer processing business.
He said DNR plans to issue warnings to those caught using PCR's on public land.
Presumably a second offense would result in arrest.

So, this brings up a question.
Say you thought you were in the right (using legal equipment) and are found in possession of a deer that has been shot with your PCR.
DNR gives you a warning, but technically they should also confiscate the carcass.

That's going to cause even more angst.

 

[avboiler11]

LOL let someone writing an aircraft maintenance manual make this mistake and see what happens.

It happens, trust me...

In my experience it resulted in a debate with Cessna engineering, in others it has resulted in eight-figure fines.

 

[Ggreen]

It happens, trust me...

In my experience it resulted in a debate with Cessna engineering, in others it has resulted in eight-figure fines.

I'm an aircraft mechanic. There are a lot of small errors but this is no small error. This is an oversight that should have been caught months ago. As soon as the problem was found it should have been a public statement not this close and dagger last minute nonsense. As soon as the problem was found it should have been announced in an email to all of us in the system. Mistakes happen, how a mistake is handled is the important part.

 

[Ggreen]

I had a conversation today with a guy that runs a deer processing business.
He said DNR plans to issue warnings to those caught using PCR's on public land.
Presumably a second offense would result in arrest.

So, this brings up a question.
Say you thought you were in the right (using legal equipment) and are found in possession of a deer that has been shot with your PCR.
DNR gives you a warning, but technically they should also confiscate the carcass.

That's going to cause even more angst.

I wouldn't take legal advice from a butcher. The DNR says nothing about leniency with it. I'd rather not leave it up to the officer in the field who just caught his wife with another guy or his daughter with the neighbor. All they have to say is that they were only going to warn but felt the offender was being aggressive. Bye deer, bye hunting priveleges, and possible firearm offense.

 

[Mgderf]

I wouldn't take legal advice from a butcher. The DNR says nothing about leniency with it. I'd rather not leave it up to the officer in the field who just caught his wife with another guy or his daughter with the neighbor. All they have to say is that they were only going to warn but felt the offender was being aggressive. Bye deer, bye hunting priveleges, and possible firearm offense.

I said nothing about taking advice from anyone.
I was restating what I was told.

I stated up thread that this snafu makes no difference to me.
I hunt private land.

 

[bwframe]

Many people clamored for the legislators to get involved in the High Powered Rifle debate of cartridge legalization. A few people said No be patient and let the DNR continue to expand on the types of ammo allowed. Well the legislators got involved and messed it up. That's why sometimes it's best not to ask the politicians to get involved.

I'd like to see some more detail on this whole mess with links and dates. Sounds as if neither the legislature OR the DNR is looking out for us.

This sounds like a good time for hunters to really rattle legislators cages. While they are fixing this, lets just go ahead with private property has the same rules as the public ground that we all own has. And drop the foolish round count restrictions.

What does our Governor say about this? [STRIKE]Who is the head DNR person[/STRIKE], what is their comment?

From the guide:

 

[greg]

Ok, to clarify this. I just had a face to face with our county CO. (I am on the Sheriff's department) He pulled up an email, from his chain of command, that he had received today.
The wording from the legislature was an oversight on the "ALL rifles on public ground statement." Center fire rifles are NOT allowed on public ground. Even though the Hunting Regulation booklet says so.
Now, with that being said, the COs were advised to use sound discretion when dealing with someone who thought they were in the right, according to the Hunting Regs.
The DNR is working to change the on-line regs. Too late to change the published booklet, obviously.
So now you know ground truth.

So what changed from last year when HPR rounds where in place for private land and PCR's where legal for public land??

Here are the Two IC Code one from last year and this years IC Code....

2016 IC code

IC 14-22-2-8 Deer hunting; permitted firearms; required report
Sec. 8. (a) This section applies to a hunting season beginning after June 30, 2016, and ending before January 1, 2020.
(b) A hunter may use a rifle during the firearms season to hunt deer subject to the following:
(1) The use of a rifle is permitted only on privately owned land.
(2) The rifle must have a barrel length of at least sixteen (16) inches.
(3) The rifle must be chambered for one (1) of the following cartridges:
(A) .243.
(B) .30-30.
(C) .300.
(D) .30-06.
(E) .308.
(4) A hunter may not possess more than ten (10) cartridges for the rifle while hunting deer under this section.
(5) The rifle must meet any other requirements established by the department.
(c) The use of a full metal jacketed bullet to hunt deer is unlawful.
(d) The department shall report on the impact of the use of rifles to hunt deer under this section to the governor and, in an electronic format under IC 5-14-6, the general assembly before February 15,
2020.
(e) This section expires June 30, 2020.



2017 IC Code

C 14-22-2-8Deer hunting; permitted firearms; required report

Sec. 8. (a) This section applies to a hunting season beginning after June 30, 2016, and ending before January 1, 2020.
(b) A hunter may use a rifle during the firearms season to hunt deer subject to the following:
(1) The use of a rifle is permitted only on privately owned land.
(2) The rifle must have a barrel length of at least sixteen (16) inches.
(3) The rifle must be chambered for a cartridge that fires a bullet that is two hundred forty-three thousandths (.243) of an inch in diameter or larger.
(4) The rifle must fire a cartridge that has a minimum case length of one and sixteen-hundredths (1.16) inches, but is no longer than three (3) inches.
(5) A hunter may not possess more than ten (10) cartridges for the rifle while hunting deer under this section.
(6) The rifle must meet any other requirements established by the department.
(c) The use of a full metal jacketed bullet to hunt deer is unlawful.
(d) The department shall report on the impact of the use of rifles to hunt deer under this section to the governor and, in an electronic format under IC 5-14-6, the general assembly before February 15, 2020.
(e) This section expires June 30, 2020.
As added by P.L.110-2016, SEC.1. Amended by P.L.195-2017, SEC.7.

 

[d.kaufman]

So what changed from last year when HPR rounds where in place for private land and PCR's where legal for public land??

Here are the Two IC Code one from last year and this years IC Code....

2016 IC code

IC 14-22-2-8 Deer hunting; permitted firearms; required report
Sec. 8. (a) This section applies to a hunting season beginning after June 30, 2016, and ending before January 1, 2020.
(b) A hunter may use a rifle during the firearms season to hunt deer subject to the following:
(1) The use of a rifle is permitted only on privately owned land.
(2) The rifle must have a barrel length of at least sixteen (16) inches.
(3) The rifle must be chambered for one (1) of the following cartridges:
(A) .243.
(B) .30-30.
(C) .300.
(D) .30-06.
(E) .308.
(4) A hunter may not possess more than ten (10) cartridges for the rifle while hunting deer under this section.
(5) The rifle must meet any other requirements established by the department.
(c) The use of a full metal jacketed bullet to hunt deer is unlawful.
(d) The department shall report on the impact of the use of rifles to hunt deer under this section to the governor and, in an electronic format under IC 5-14-6, the general assembly before February 15,
2020.
(e) This section expires June 30, 2020.



2017 IC Code

C 14-22-2-8Deer hunting; permitted firearms; required report

Sec. 8. (a) This section applies to a hunting season beginning after June 30, 2016, and ending before January 1, 2020.
(b) A hunter may use a rifle during the firearms season to hunt deer subject to the following:
(1) The use of a rifle is permitted only on privately owned land.
(2) The rifle must have a barrel length of at least sixteen (16) inches.
(3) The rifle must be chambered for a cartridge that fires a bullet that is two hundred forty-three thousandths (.243) of an inch in diameter or larger.
(4) The rifle must fire a cartridge that has a minimum case length of one and sixteen-hundredths (1.16) inches, but is no longer than three (3) inches.
(5) A hunter may not possess more than ten (10) cartridges for the rifle while hunting deer under this section.
(6) The rifle must meet any other requirements established by the department.
(c) The use of a full metal jacketed bullet to hunt deer is unlawful.
(d) The department shall report on the impact of the use of rifles to hunt deer under this section to the governor and, in an electronic format under IC 5-14-6, the general assembly before February 15, 2020.
(e) This section expires June 30, 2020.
As added by P.L.110-2016, SEC.1. Amended by P.L.195-2017, SEC.7.

I believe the confusion sets in with this dnr statement. Click the link. Basically says NO rifles period can be used on public land

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...-cartridge-rifles-no-go-public-land-year.html

 

[dnurk]

Greg raises a great point above. We all know section 3 was changed to allow more calibers to be used on private land. But what language specifically changed to prevent PCRs on public land? Are they saying the original law from 2016 did that? And if smwhy is it just becoming a problem now?? I don't see any change from 2016 to 2017 that would have required them to enforce things differently vs last Fall.

 

[d.kaufman]

This link for the DNR specifically states that ALL rifles are no longer legal on public land
Follow link and click on equipment

https://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/7389.htm

 

[dnurk]

I hear what you're saying d.k....but I think the question is what changed SPECIFICALLY in Indiana Code from 2016 when HPRs were first legislated into use and the 2017 bill they reference at your link that suddenly makes all rifles including PCRs illegal?

look at the two versions of IC Greg copied above. Why does the 2017 version elimate PCRs on state land if the 2016 version didn't? Part that doesn't make sense to me.

 

[d.kaufman]

Im just as confused as everyone else. If i do go out for firearms season, guess I'll just use the shotgun to be safe unless better clarification is found

 

[bwframe]

We have a month before gun season opens. How come we're not seeing this on the news? Why haven't we turned the volume up on this?

 

[greg]

We have a month before gun season opens. How come we're not seeing this on the news? Why haven't we turned the volume up on this?

Word on the street is theryre working on a resaluation to this and hope to announce something soon.

 

[bwframe]

Word on the street is theryre working on a resaluation to this and hope to announce something soon.

Good. Still think we should have a better gameplan than wait and see. That is why we're here right now.

Maybe we plan a deer rifle march on the statehouse?

 

[Ggreen]

They have been very responsive up until I asked them where it was stated in the code that we could not use rifles. They have not replied in 3 or 4 hours. I could not find it anywhere in the code that rifles are unlawful on public land. I asked for them to cite their source and they are drawing a blank. It may be buried in another chapter, but the burden is on them to prove they have grounds to enforce.