Chinese terra-forming in the South China Sea

[Birds Away]

Hrhrhmmmm? (<-- Scooby Doo impersonation)

Just clicked the link in your quote into a new tab and it worked. Do you have the Beeb blocked for some reason?

Here's the link to the general BBC-China landing page.
China - BBC News

Thanks, I was being lazy. I was going to go look for myself.

Within the cruiser/destroyer/frigate group you can call it whatever you want and there will be precedent. The USN is guilty of contributing to this.

 

[Thor]

The State Dept has officially declared China a Tier 3 (worst) human trafficking offender.

US Declares China Among World's Worst Human Trafficking Offenders

The report listed 22 other countries in the lowest Tier 3 category:
Belarus, Belize, Burundi, the Central African Republic, Comoros, the Democratic Republic of Congo, Congo, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Iran, North Korea, Mali, Mauritania, Russia, South Sudan, Sudan, Syria, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and Venezuela.

 

[T.Lex]

Nothing really new here.

We sent a ship and some planes within the boundaries of what China claims as their sovereign territory. Vietnam renewed its claims to the oil resources in the area. China docked its aircraft carrier in Hong Kong.

Yadda yadda yadda.

 

[BugI02]

America Communism

 

[T.Lex]

Three PLAN Officers May Have Just Revealed What China Wants in the South China Sea | The National Interest Fascinating breakdown of an obscure article by PLAN officers on the SCS. Takes me back to the old days of muddling through obscure Soviet periodicals for insights (both real and perceived) about various things.

 

[T.Lex]

Ok.

This REALLY doesn't belong here, other than as another example of how China is flexing muscle in the region.

Why is the India-China border stand-off escalating? - BBC News

 

[Birds Away]

Three PLAN Officers May Have Just Revealed What China Wants in the South China Sea | The National Interest Fascinating breakdown of an obscure article by PLAN officers on the SCS. Takes me back to the old days of muddling through obscure Soviet periodicals for insights (both real and perceived) about various things.

Interesting article.

 

[T.Lex]

Interesting article.

Indeed.

Reminiscent of the old Cold War days, eh?

 

[Birds Away]

Indeed.

Reminiscent of the old Cold War days, eh?

Yes, but these War College boys seem to think they are reading an article from their counterparts in China. At least two of the three officers who authored the article are political officers. As I understand it there is usually a considerable distinction between political and regular or what we might think of as tactical officers. I suggest you read the article again with that in mind. It might lead you to different conclusions.

 

[T.Lex]

Yes, but these War College boys seem to think they are reading an article from their counterparts in China. At least two of the three officers who authored the article are political officers. As I understand it there is usually a considerable distinction between political and regular or what we might think of as tactical officers. I suggest you read the article again with that in mind. It might lead you to different conclusions.

Oh, no worries there. I was particularly familiar with the Soviet system, which also used political officers.

Frankly, it is important more because it was not written by only POs. The fact (presumably) that there was an actual officer involved is what makes it intriguing.

At least at a superficial level, it is possible to deconstruct what was written for political reasons as opposed to operational. The layers of politics can be (somewhat) stripped away to reveal the functional stuff.

Namely, that China is VERY confident, operationally. It also reinforces the idea that China does not view conflicts in terms of military or economic. Rather, it is a fully integrated approach that brings all possible leverage points to bear.

For us, we cannot view China's positions on NK, Taiwan, Africa, India, etc., singularly. Instead, we should also take a comprehensive approach.

 

[Birds Away]

I agree. Their confidence is an important layer of the onion. Another interesting piece is that, unlike our system, their navy is a part of an subordinate to their army.

 

[T.Lex]

What is China's 'magic island-making' ship? - BBC News

Better boat brings bottom bits to build bigger islands.

 

[ljk]

I agree. Their confidence is an important layer of the onion. Another interesting piece is that, unlike our system, their navy is a part of an subordinate to their army.

Probably true 10-15 years ago. Quite contrary now. The PLA Army had been down sized for the past 15 years, from 35 Group Corps to 17 now.

Their defence spending is very heavy on the naval vessel building and naval aviation.

They are currently building 13 ships at Jiangnan Shipyard alone. Including 2 10k ton cruisers.

 

[T.Lex]

Probably true 10-15 years ago. Quite contrary now. The PLA Army had been down sized for the past 15 years, from 35 Group Corps to 17 now.

Their defence spending is very heavy on the naval vessel building and naval aviation.

They are currently building 13 ships at Jiangnan Shipyard alone. Including 2 10k ton cruisers.

I also wonder how many of their ships are designed almost exclusively for a 80-100 mile voyage. Well, multiple round trips of 160-200 miles.

 

[T.Lex]

China warship sails near Japan-controlled islands - BBC News

While distractions abound, the Chinese remain focused in all areas of their interests.

 

[BugI02]

Doesn't it just make you want to help/allow Japan to become a Nuclear power? (on the down low, of course)

 

[T.Lex]

Doesn't it just make you want to help/allow Japan to become a Nuclear power? (on the down low, of course)

Speaking of taking right to the edge....

Personally, no. I don't think a nuclear Japan would help matters, either strategically or financially. For the foreseeable future, I think our foreign policy (such as it is) would come to Japan's nuclear defense. So, yes, we continue to subsidize their defense (although less than we have historically).

Financially, that kind of capital weapon doesn't make sense for them or us. At least not in terms of R&D of a home grown nuke. If we really want to go down that path, let's just sell them some intermediate range tech and tactical warheads.

This is something that I'll readily concede reasonable people can differ on.

 

[Birds Away]

Speaking of taking right to the edge....

Personally, no. I don't think a nuclear Japan would help matters, either strategically or financially. For the foreseeable future, I think our foreign policy (such as it is) would come to Japan's nuclear defense. So, yes, we continue to subsidize their defense (although less than we have historically).

Financially, that kind of capital weapon doesn't make sense for them or us. At least not in terms of R&D of a home grown nuke. If we really want to go down that path, let's just sell them some intermediate range tech and tactical warheads.

This is something that I'll readily concede reasonable people can differ on.

That money would be better spent elsewhere. If we get to the point where tactical nukes are in play I would be very surprised. The Chinese have more clear advantages at the lower end of the tech scale and would not benefit from an escalation which might mitigate any part of that advantage.

 

[T.Lex]

That money would be better spent elsewhere. If we get to the point where tactical nukes are in play I would be very surprised. The Chinese have more clear advantages at the lower end of the tech scale and would not benefit from an escalation which might mitigate any part of that advantage.

I agree.

Diesel/electric boats and torpedoes are cheaper to buy, maintain, and operate.

And, I recall reading that the Japanese have used the advances in lithium ion batteries in subs to get extended range. That's notwithstanding the submersible drone tech options.

 

[Birds Away]

I agree.

Diesel/electric boats and torpedoes are cheaper to buy, maintain, and operate.

And, I recall reading that the Japanese have used the advances in lithium ion batteries in subs to get extended range. That's notwithstanding the submersible drone tech options.

Yeah, there are much better places for Japan to invest rather than nukes. I just hope they are.