CIVIL RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION: General Religious Discussion...

[JettaKnight]

Speaking of Dr. Moore, Jerry Falwell, Jr. is now making outrageous claims about an SBC "deep state".

https://www.christianheadlines.com/...out-says-he-s-part-of-the-sbc-deep-state.html
https://relevantmagazine.com/god/ch...-moore-of-being-a-part-of-the-sbc-deep-state/

What a tool.

Apparently, if you don't praise Trump, you're against the SBC. Dr. Moore's been surprisingly quiet when it comes to Trump, and Falwell's been anything but.

There's a storm the SBC needs to weather - the decline of the Moral Majority, as represented by Falwell et al.; those guys won't change easy, and I pray the Holy Spirit softens their hearts.

 

[historian]

Proof of Irony: pending on the Alabama governor's desk is a request for clemency for a death row inmate.

https://www.wthr.com/article/latest-no-appeals-planned-condemned-alabama-inmate

Something something conception to natural death....

Or... in her own words...

I really don't like how this issue is conflated.

I have a problem with the death penalty not in concept but in execution (pardon the pun).

The death penalty is, in a way, pro-life. By proscribing the ultimate penalty, society is saying that these certain actions are so far above the norms of humanity that, although life is sacred, you have forfeited the right to be (usually by way of significant harm to others, most frequently by taking another's life).

 

[T.Lex]

I really don't like how this issue is conflated.

I have a problem with the death penalty not in concept but in execution (pardon the pun).

The death penalty is, in a way, pro-life. By proscribing the ultimate penalty, society is saying that these certain actions are so far above the norms of humanity that, although life is sacred, you have forfeited the right to be (usually by way of significant harm to others, most frequently by taking another's life).

I agree that they are often conflated, and our personal views are roughly aligned. But, in this context, I see hypocrisy.

If all life is sacred - full stop, no other qualifiers - then even the death penalty elevated human decisionmaking above that which is sacred. Every man a god.

That also does apply to abortion, obviously.

So the issue becomes that when a person states without qualifiers that all life is sacred in one context, but then denies it in another, then that is hypocritical.

Again, personally, there is a synthesis of principles by which one can be anti-abortion and pro-death penalty, but then the language used is modulated to express those principles.

 

[JettaKnight]

I know I really running to the well, but man, that Dr. Moore is on the point:



[h=1]Is the Pope Right About the Death Penalty?[/h]

and


[h=1]What a Stupid Bumper Sticker Can Tell Us About American Christianity[/h]

 

[NKBJ]

Personally, I believe that the people supporting these frontal attacks on Roe v. Wade believe that they are doing God's work.

And, while the actual question of whether they are or aren't can't really be answered in this life, on the assumption that they actually are... well... then it looks like God is sending 2 American trains at each other on the same track.

The social and cultural fissures in this country grow deeper and more intensely every year.

Yeah, half of them are going to Boulder and the other half to Vegas.

 

[T.Lex]

Yeah, half of them are going to Boulder and the other half to Vegas.

That was an incredible book, and not a bad miniseries.

 

[JettaKnight]

Yeah, half of them are going to Boulder and the other half to Vegas.

I think you're talking about liberalism and hedonism (respectively). I think T.Lex was referring to the oncoming collision between the Moral Majority and the Social Justice factions of Christianity. (see Falwell v. Moore)



EDIT: I think this picture applies to me:

 

[JettaKnight]

That was an incredible book, and not a bad miniseries.

I guess I missed the point.



What are we talking about? Boulder, Vegas, trains?

 

[T.Lex]

I guess I missed the point.



What are we talking about? Boulder, Vegas, trains?

The Stand, by Stephen King.

At least, that's what I read in to the Boulder/Vegas reference.

ETA:
But, you're actually not that far off, either, now that I think about it.

 

[HoughMade]

Speaking of Dr. Moore, Jerry Falwell, Jr. is now making outrageous claims about an SBC "deep state".

https://www.christianheadlines.com/...out-says-he-s-part-of-the-sbc-deep-state.html
https://relevantmagazine.com/god/ch...-moore-of-being-a-part-of-the-sbc-deep-state/

What a tool.

Apparently, if you don't praise Trump, you're against the SBC. Dr. Moore's been surprisingly quiet when it comes to Trump, and Falwell's been anything but.

There's a storm the SBC needs to weather - the decline of the Moral Majority, as represented by Falwell et al.; those guys won't change easy, and I pray the Holy Spirit softens their hearts.

This is idiocy. It is all too political. The SBC itself needs to be about the business of supporting it's member churches in the task of preaching the gospel, making disciples and glorifying God. It also needs to support its missionaries here and worldwide in doing the same.

the SBC has insane internal politics and way to often treads into national politics. Stupid.

Getting involved in partisan politics is not in the universal church's mission statement and a bad idea overall.

Teach the people the Word, unashamedly and clearly, then TRUST the people to do the right thing as they, as individual citizens, get involved in issues of governance either as politicians themselves or as voters, or anything in between.

Falwell had nearly created a "Church of Trump"- horrible idea. I like many of Trump's policies, not all, and I have no respect for him as a husband or as a "Christian" leader. None. I have no difficulty separating policy from personal, but Falwell appears to be "in for a penny in for a pound".

As for Moore, generally, I have liked what he has said, but he is cozying up to the SJW crowd as much as he can and supporting a measure of SLW thought within the SBC. This too is dangerous and harmful.

I am a Deacon in an SBC church and one thing we have never abided is partisan politics from the pulpit or in the church. Teach what is right. Full stop.

 

[JettaKnight]

I'll give that Moore really pushes the bounds into leftist territory. I don't know if it's a pendulum effect or what, but I pray he doesn't push until it breaks. It's unfortunate, but for the most part, the guy says some really challening and insightful things, but it's going unheard by a large number of folks, simply because the don't like his politics.*


Bets on if the SBC splits into two?



* Understandable. I don't normally won't chose to listen to people I don't agree with. But to say he's an agent of Satan is too far.

 

[HoughMade]

I'll give that Moore really pushes the bounds into leftist territory. I don't know if it's a pendulum effect or what, but I pray he doesn't push until it breaks. It's unfortunate, but for the most part, the guy says some really challening and insightful things, but it's going unheard by a large number of folks, simply because the don't like his politics.*


Bets on if the SBC splits into two?



* Understandable. I don't normally won't chose to listen to people I don't agree with. But to say he's an agent of Satan is too far.

Split?

Interesting thought and I wouldn't bet one way or the other at this point (hey, I'm Baptist), but if it happens, it won't be over this directly. The more likely wedge issue is women pastoring.

In other words, the issue with the other Moore.

 

[JettaKnight]

Split?

Interesting thought and I wouldn't bet one way or the other at this point (hey, I'm Baptist), but if it happens, it won't be over this directly. The more likely wedge issue is women pastoring.

In other words, the issue with the other Moore.

She's um, interesting. Not completely Steven Furtick out there, but definitely lean on scripture. I don't mean to disparage women's seminar speakers, but that's squarely where she fits; not in high SBC leadership, and not in a pulpit on Sunday morning.

 

[HoughMade]

She's um, interesting. Not completely Steven Furtick out there, but definitely lean on scripture. I don't mean to disparage women's seminar speakers, but that's squarely where she fits; not in high SBC leadership, and not in a pulpit on Sunday morning.

[video=youtube;IsU_G7OS6D0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsU_G7OS6D0&t=114s[/video]

 

[foszoe]

I think we are perceived more like prodigal sons than enemies.

Let's say Republicans and Democrats

 

[JettaKnight]

Let's say Republicans and Democrats

Ouch!

 

[historian]

I've been staying away from that SBC fight. I think it is really dividing and overall pointless. I think the left has a valid hermenutic point (if it is splitting hairs) and the right has a valid hermenutic point. I think if the left wing was smart and gracious they would have backed away from it, but it seems like Beth wants to push boundaries for the sake of pushing.

But hey, the Baptist Great Commission applies here: split ye into all the world.

 

[afcolt]

Beth Moore is a tremendously poor teacher, even if women preaching was biblical (it isn’t). She relies on emotionalism and feelings, but is a terrible exegete of Scripture. Pick a teaching of hers at random, and see how quickly she flees off the pages of the Bible. She has supported some of the worst of the prosperity teachers (from Joyce Meyer to the Osteens), yet the SBC still promotes her.

As a pastor in a technically SBC church, I think the writing is on the wall. The Social Justice/Critical Theory advocates are all over leadership. I don’t think leadership has the stomach for this fight—or they approve of her. It won’t be long before it boils over.


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[Dead Duck]

Beth Moore....
Has she ask for 8 million dollars or God will kill her yet?




...that one was a classic.

 

[NKBJ]

People are funny. Yep, heard that one in black and white.