Civil Religious Discussions : all things Christianity II

[indiucky]

 

[Cameramonkey]

View attachment 197862

INDI! You're alive! Good to see you, brother!

 

[indiucky]

INDI! You're alive! Good to see you, brother!

You as well....

 

[DragonGunner]

Im a lifelong United Methodist, and I'm mad as hell.

For those that arent aware (apologies if its been covered already. But I gotta vent) TPTB in the US decided that United Methodism is outdated and we need to embrace homosexuality. So its time to allow gay pastors and perform gay weddings. Its already been smacked down once in Annual Conference as a trial balloon. Apparently this idea is a US thing and they are outnumbered by African and Asian churches who are SUPER DUPER conservative. (they follow the bible) So it was voted down.

So our leadership pretty much said, "we are going to embrace homosexuals and shift doctrine. If you dont like it, There's the door. They are setting up The Global Methodist denomination. If you dont like the change you are free to leave. We'll let you take your real property (that they hold in a trust as the ACTUAL owners) but you'll have to continue to pay your 11.5% of your tithes for 2 years after you leave. “ (we assume its because they budgeted x years out for pensions, widow's payments, etc that they need to cover)

So due to covid the vote got postponed again to 2024 since the overseas delegates couldnt come. (they dont have major meetings EVERY year)

So here is my beef:

Why are WE the ones forced to leave because we want to continue to follow the bible/traditional doctrine*? Why arent THEY, the ones who are unhappy with doctrine, not splitting off and creating a new more liberal/woke church? ESPECIALLY since in the global church, they appear to be the minority.

/rant

In the end, if the African and Asian churches hold their ground, this could go away. But I suspect this will still be pursued into 2026 and later as they act like petulant children and keep harping like the kid nagging Linda trying to wear everyone else down.

*we welcome all. We recognize same sex marriage and allow homosexuals to be members, but just wont perform the actual ceremonies or allow them into the clergy. Our church actually has at least one member who is gay. And she is welcomed with open arms and loved unconditionally.

Its a all new church age.....I grew up methodist then spent years in pentecost. The churches are a complete mess. My Mom still goes to Methodist church and they have talked about leaving the methodist and becoming non denominational, they have been upset with what you have said also. Reprobate churches and dying churches these days.....remember that in the last day many shall depart from the faith. Didn't say they wouldn't keep going to church. Reprobates fill them weekly, its just the numbers are growing in these times. My mother and father in law left their long time church because they made doctrine that being gay and being married as gays was no longer a sin and you couldn't say it was sin anymore. It was a large church and they left with just a few. The ones staying rebuked them saying they were ungodly for being judges! IMHO some people just don't like reading the Bible for themselves, thats why they pay a pastor to tickle their ears.

 

[DadSmith]

Its a all new church age.....I grew up methodist then spent years in pentecost. The churches are a complete mess. My Mom still goes to Methodist church and they have talked about leaving the methodist and becoming non denominational, they have been upset with what you have said also. Reprobate churches and dying churches these days.....remember that in the last day many shall depart from the faith. Didn't say they wouldn't keep going to church. Reprobates fill them weekly, its just the numbers are growing in these times. My mother and father in law left their long time church because they made doctrine that being gay and being married as gays was no longer a sin and you couldn't say it was sin anymore. It was a large church and they left with just a few. The ones staying rebuked them saying they were ungodly for being judges! IMHO some people just don't like reading the Bible for themselves, thats why they pay a pastor to tickle their ears.

All part of the falling away that is supposed to happen in the days before Christ's return.
If your church has abandoned the gospel for modern political and cultural beliefs its time to find one that is still holding to biblical beliefs or they will drag you down with them.

 

[Ngdonut]

Any reformed folks out there on INGO?

 

[breakingcontact]

Any reformed folks out there on INGO?

Oh man. That's my lane. What's up?

 

[ancjr]

Its a all new church age.....I grew up methodist then spent years in pentecost. The churches are a complete mess. My Mom still goes to Methodist church and they have talked about leaving the methodist and becoming non denominational, they have been upset with what you have said also. Reprobate churches and dying churches these days.....remember that in the last day many shall depart from the faith. Didn't say they wouldn't keep going to church. Reprobates fill them weekly, its just the numbers are growing in these times. My mother and father in law left their long time church because they made doctrine that being gay and being married as gays was no longer a sin and you couldn't say it was sin anymore. It was a large church and they left with just a few. The ones staying rebuked them saying they were ungodly for being judges! IMHO some people just don't like reading the Bible for themselves, thats why they pay a pastor to tickle their ears.

Revelation 18:4​

“And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.”

 

[breakingcontact]

Revelation 18:4​

“And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.”

My recent bible study has been focused on revelation. American modern Christianity has an interesting/false view of Revelation.

 

[Cameramonkey]

I would also recommend your next bible study is on Revelation. You need to understand it to understand when it happens to keep your bearings and not fall away. Some think its happening now based on either the foundation of Israel in 1947, The 6 day war where Jews took control of Israel, or possibly when Trump recognized Jerusalem as the capital. Whatever... many think one of these 3 starts the end times clock ticking; we may have passed the first marker that toppled the first domino. (personally, I dont know)

And if its not happening now? No big deal. You are prepared if it ever DOES happen in your lifetime.

My church on the SW side of Indy is hosting a Revelation bible study here in a week or two that will last for several months of Sundays at 11:45AM after our regular worship service. You aren't expected to worship with us but you are most welcome to if you wish because you dont want to miss worship at your home church. And even if you aren't a Methodist, you are still welcome to worship with us.

This is a college level course that dives VERY deep. I've already done it as a men's group bible study and my eyes were opened, and I'm at peace with whatever happens whenever. And it helped cement my faith; a first in almost 50 years of going to church. Im not exaggerating that studying it is life changing as a Christian. And having studied this in 2019, when Covid hit, I was cool as a cucumber in my mortality.

PM me for details, we'd love to have you join us.

Edit: digging deeper it appears that the course we are using is aged (2011) and the pastor who did it has moved on, so the church that sold his work is no longer selling it. I'll see if I can arrange to get a copy to distribute if anyone is interested since its no longer for sale. (abandonware?)

 

[ancjr]

American modern Christianity has an interesting/false view of Revelation.

That's an understatement.

 

[Ngdonut]

That's an understatement.

I’d go even further to say most modern Christian’s are soft in their understanding of most of the Bible and their understanding of God’s character. We have allowed the world to influence the church and therefore so many pastors are afraid to even say the S word from the pulpit. Afraid to offend by telling the truth.

The truth in love will still offend. Jesus did it everywhere he went. Remember, that’s why Israel and Rome teamed up to kill him.

 

[ancjr]

I’d go even further to say most modern Christian’s are soft in their understanding of most of the Bible and their understanding of God’s character. We have allowed the world to influence the church and therefore so many pastors are afraid to even say the S word from the pulpit. Afraid to offend by telling the truth.

The truth in love will still offend. Jesus did it everywhere he went. Remember, that’s why Israel and Rome teamed up to kill him.

They threw down their coats for him to ride his donkey on and cried out that he was their king a week before the same crowd cried "Crucify him!" and "We have no king but Ceasar!" The same as God is the same yesterday, today and forever man's character is the same today.

 

[historian]

So...I'm officially a Lutheran. JK you should join us, you'd like it over here...

 

[HoughMade]

Welp....it's probably going to come up at some point because its all over the news.

Indiana pastor admits adultery, alleged victim says she was just 16 years old: 'It's not just adultery'

An Indiana pastor admitted to his congregation that he committed adultery 20 years ago, a confession that was then followed by a fiery response from a woman who said he victimized her when she was just 16 years old.

www.foxnews.com

Of course, when people set up as leaders make huge, intentional and evil mistakes, it doesn't impugn Christianity (on any logical basis), but it sure doesn't look good.

I shall give my reaction from 3 different perspectives: Father, Deacon and Lawyer.

Father- this happened over 20 years ago (the woman says 27)...which would do nothing to assuage my ire. Even 27 years later....put politely, we would, at a minimum, have words.

Deacon (which in my church function as both Deacons and Elders do in some other churches)- How fast can we get rid of him and wipe him off of our social media....and start the investigation into who else he may have exploited? He should never be a pastor again or serve in any church in any official capacity other than maybe setting up and taking down chairs. Forgiveness? That's our business, but his victim deserves our attention first and primarily.

Lawyer- I don't see any crime that can be prosecuted here. 16 is the age of consent in Indiana, so not "Sexual Conduct with a Minor" (a/k/a "statutory rape"). She does not allege the facts to make this "Rape". Even if she did, the Statute of Limitations expired long ago. The statute of limitations would also likely bar any civil action (which, even with consent, would be possible).

 

[JettaKnight]

So...I'm officially a Lutheran. JK you should join us, you'd like it over here...

My wife and I visited Luther's home and church in December - that's as Lutheran as I get... And I loved hearing Pastor Inqvist in Lake Wobegon.

 

[JettaKnight]

Welp....it's probably going to come up at some point because its all over the news.

Indiana pastor admits adultery, alleged victim says she was just 16 years old: 'It's not just adultery'

An Indiana pastor admitted to his congregation that he committed adultery 20 years ago, a confession that was then followed by a fiery response from a woman who said he victimized her when she was just 16 years old.

www.foxnews.com

I've been too busy reading the SBC report... Oof.

 

[historian]

Welp....it's probably going to come up at some point because its all over the news.

Indiana pastor admits adultery, alleged victim says she was just 16 years old: 'It's not just adultery'

An Indiana pastor admitted to his congregation that he committed adultery 20 years ago, a confession that was then followed by a fiery response from a woman who said he victimized her when she was just 16 years old.

www.foxnews.com

Of course, when people set up as leaders make huge, intentional and evil mistakes, it doesn't impugn Christianity (on any logical basis), but it sure doesn't look good.

I shall give my reaction from 3 different perspectives: Father, Deacon and Lawyer.

Father- this happened over 20 years ago (the woman says 27)...which would do nothing to assuage my ire. Even 27 years later....put politely, we would, at a minimum, have words.

Deacon (which in my church function as both Deacons and Elders do in some other churches)- How fast can we get rid of him and wipe him off of our social media....and start the investigation into who else he may have exploited? He should never be a pastor again or serve in any church in any official capacity other than maybe setting up and taking down chairs. Forgiveness? That's our business, but his victim deserves our attention first and primarily.

Lawyer- I don't see any crime that can be prosecuted here. 16 is the age of consent in Indiana, so not "Sexual Conduct with a Minor" (a/k/a "statutory rape"). She does not allege the facts to make this "Rape". Even if she did, the Statute of Limitations expired long ago. The statute of limitations would also likely bar any civil action (which, even with consent, would be possible).

I could make a couple of jabs, but I won't.

Terrible person, awful human being. What the church did following his admission was even worse.

 

[historian]

My wife and I visited Luther's home and church in December - that's as Lutheran as I get... And I loved hearing Pastor Inqvist in Lake Wobegon.

DOOO IT

 

[HoughMade]

I could make a couple of jabs, but I won't.

Terrible person, awful human being. What the church did following his admission was even worse.

Yes. He's not the one the should be showing support for right now.