Commandant of the Marine Corps says no to Gays

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  • trafalga

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    "Conway says these few gays don't cause a problem now because their homosexuality is not known publicly. But he said if their sexuality does become public, "90 to 95 percent of the Marines" he has informally surveyed are concerned about the consequences. Conway cited impromptu surveys he has conducted by a "show of hands" among Marines at town hall style meetings." quoted from above mentioned FoxNews article.

    Sounds like a pretty solid stat to be passing around.

    ed. note: not sure if that's the correct pantone for the "sarcasm" statements, but it should read as sarcasm.

    Have you got a better stat? Sounds like you are shooting with blanks. I would like to see your stat regarding acceptance of gays by the Marines!

    I do not have a better stat, nor was I trying to imply that I did. I believe that a statistic, by a show of hands, at a impromptu meeting, where the desired outcome of the questioner is known by the participants will produce a skewed result set, in favor of the desired outcome. This query probably being taken after the group has been explicitly told the "correct" answer by the leader that the group directly or indirectly reports to.

    I am surprised that the reported stat wasn't 100%. My guess as to why it is 95% is because 100% would be blatantly obvious to be inaccurate and we wouldn't want blatant inaccuracy. At 95% others can repeat this statistic with out question or validation.

    My Example: My Boss's Boss's Boss's Boss (who controls my entire life, and future income) gets me and a group of coworkers together. He/She explains to me in great detail how and why, at great length, that 2+2 = 5. At the end of his/her discussion, asks "So, by a show of hands, Does 2+2 = 5". I would expect the resultant outcome to be greater than 90%.

    I concede that the example above is simplified and asking a question of "presumed fact" and not one of a social nature. It was used to demonstrate a method.
     

    r3126

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    Originally Posted by trafalga
    I do not have a better stat, nor was I trying to imply that I did. I believe that a statistic, by a show of hands, at a impromptu meeting, where the desired outcome of the questioner is known by the participants will produce a skewed result set, in favor of the desired outcome. This query probably being taken after the group has been explicitly told the "correct" answer by the leader that the group directly or indirectly reports to.

    I'll concede that the stat is not very scientific. Your point is well taken. Based on my experience, however, i believe it is a valid reflection of the position held by Marines (and we are talking about the Marine Corps here). Do I have a stat to back up my belief? No, but it is based on 22 years, 0302 (infantry), troop level experience and having had exceptional NCO's and SNCO's who could and did keep track of the attitudes and beliefs of the Marines under their direction.
     

    SavageEagle

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    Also fyi, the US constitution that I swore to protect has religion seperate from the government aka separation of church and state and the freedom to worship any religion you want, even though a most of our fore fathers were christians, I don't consider us a christian country.

    I would like to point out that you are only half right. Our Founders very much so built the Constitution and our government with the FOUNDATION of government on Religious Principle. There is separation of CHURCH and State, but not of religion and state. There is not one part of the Constitution that wasn't based on Christianity or reliant on Religious Principle to function.

    We are a Country based on Christian values whether anyone on this Forum wants to believe it or not. Don't take my word for it. Go back and study the writings of the Founders.
     

    SavageEagle

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    With that said, I completely disagree with homosexuality, but to each their own. That's the beauty of our Country. However, if you're homosexual, you have no place in today's military. Hate me for saying that all you want. But if 95% of the Marines serving this Country aren't comfortable with gays, how do we expect them to have the same comradeship as straight Marines when the straight guy is always worried if the gay guy is hitting on him or something stupid?
     

    Indy317

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    What's the big deal? A "straight" person can serve along side of a Gay person as long as they don't know about them being gay? What kind of BS is that?

    I don't care what a soldier does in the bedroom, they are defending our country.

    The big deal is certain, rare situations that the sexuality would creep into. It is exactly why we don't have coed showers in the military. Imagine if the military decided to redo all the shower facilities on all the military bases on land, all the ships at sea, etc.. Now, imagine the military saying they want to "go green," and they decided to make one large shower area for all people, no rules on when any gender gets to shower. All kinds of folks would be up in arms about forcing women to shower with men. It would be 99% of the people saying it was wrong for the women more so than the guys, but 1% would say it would be wrong to force guys to shower with girls ( :laugh: ).

    This is exactly why openly serving gay service members will end up being an issue. The first gay solider who "checks" another straight guy out in the showers gets attacked. Someone gets hurt, another person ends up in trouble.

    If the whole argument is that "these are adults," then by all means lets start having coed shower and toilet facilities on military bases and ships. Shouldn't be an issue, since we are dealing with "adults," here.
     

    Sgt Rock

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    In the "For what it's worth" department, I saw the aftermath of a gay soldier having a pillow case put over his head as he was sleeping, being beaten, locked in a locker and thrown out a 2nd story barracks window. This man was a average soldier, by all accounts, a PFC, good PT scores, decent annual evals, Sharpshooter, and did not stand out in a crowd. He was a "closet gay" and few knew (I didn't) until he decided he wanted out because there were no other gays in his platoon, he had no one to share his lifestyle with (Now chew on THAT for a second).

    My unit, a hard-charging Infantry battalion with many combat-hardened vets didn't take well to this young man's choice of lifestyles and let him know. No one was prosecuted for what happened because they never found the guilty parties and he was honorably discharged administratively as "Unfit for military service".

    That was in 1966. Maybe things have changed. In my opinion (and it's JUST that) DADT allows gays to serve and just like the rest of us, requires that they keep their bedroom preferences IN the bedroom. To change the law to allow gays to serve openly is to FORCE the rest of the military to accept them, and that's wrong.
     

    rambone

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    I hate when the "Westboro Baptist" types have to come on here and give their self-righteous opinions regarding this topic. You really are inflicting more hurt to the cause that you think you are defending.
     

    Joe Williams

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    I hate it when bigots come on here and spout their hate speech anytime someone posts an opinion based on their moral beliefs. It reinforces why we must stand firm against their hatred and the damage they seek to inflict on our society.
     

    rambone

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    I hate it when bigots come on here and spout their hate speech anytime someone posts an opinion based on their moral beliefs. It reinforces why we must stand firm against their hatred and the damage they seek to inflict on our society.

    I'm just saying Joe, the flock doesn't increase in size when we C****tians are always seen as judging and berating people. People are driven away.

    That includes from the Conservative movement. Two very active and helpful people in the local Patriot group near me are secretly a female "couple." They have had to listen to how they are a scourge on society, even though they are sacrificing their own time and money to help preserve the constitution. People need to realize that the fight against Evil/Big Government/Terrorists requires as many people on board as possible.
     

    Ramen

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    Article 120 para 45(b(13). The UCMJ defines sodomy as any sexual act other than vaginal intercouse from a natural position. A natural position is defined as the "missionary" position or the male on top of the female during vaginal intercourse.

    Wow. I can't even imagine doing the same "male on top" position every single time. Married members of the military actually manage to do that?

    Under that definition you wouldn't even be able to have manual sex. No female on top, female on bottom facing away, standing, carrying, etc.

    No sex in the shower.

    I seriously am having trouble believing that every married member of the military hasn't broken this rule unless they have no sex life whatsoever.
     

    dross

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    Wow. I can't even imagine doing the same "male on top" position every single time. Married members of the military actually manage to do that?

    Under that definition you wouldn't even be able to have manual sex. No female on top, female on bottom facing away, standing, carrying, etc.

    No sex in the shower.

    I seriously am having trouble believing that every married member of the military hasn't broken this rule unless they have no sex life whatsoever.

    I don't believe the quote above comes from the actual statute. Oral sex, however, even between married couples, IS sodomy according to the UCMJ.

    I have yet to have someone admit they committed heterosexual sodomy when they served. Apprarently that's much more rare than I assumed it to be.
     

    E5RANGER375

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    lets stop making homosexuality an issue and it wont be one. EVERYONE has the right to serve their country. If your personal lifestyle choices interfere with your service then you WILL be dealt with. I have no problem with doing away with dont ask dont tell. I served with soldiers I knew were gay and it made no difference in the way I treated them nor the way they wanted to be treated. it was a non issue, and as long as its kept that way then who cares.

    If you are in the military worrying about who see's your pee pee then you are in the wrong line of work.
     

    PatriotPride

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    Wow. I can't even imagine doing the same "male on top" position every single time. Married members of the military actually manage to do that?

    Under that definition you wouldn't even be able to have manual sex. No female on top, female on bottom facing away, standing, carrying, etc.

    No sex in the shower.

    I seriously am having trouble believing that every married member of the military hasn't broken this rule unless they have no sex life whatsoever.

    Hell of a post :D
     

    dross

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    lets stop making homosexuality an issue and it wont be one. EVERYONE has the right to serve their country. If your personal lifestyle choices interfere with your service then you WILL be dealt with. I have no problem with doing away with dont ask dont tell. I served with soldiers I knew were gay and it made no difference in the way I treated them nor the way they wanted to be treated. it was a non issue, and as long as its kept that way then who cares.

    If you are in the military worrying about who see's your pee pee then you are in the wrong line of work.

    We were in the Army. Apparently Marines are more a little more skeered of homosexuality than soldiers. We have to respect that they know better than we the vulnerabilities of their particular branch.
     

    E5RANGER375

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    We were in the Army. Apparently Marines are more a little more skeered of homosexuality than soldiers. We have to respect that they know better than we the vulnerabilities of their particular branch.


    i guess. although I think the number of gay marines is higher than they think. i mean how could it not be when they are the ones running behind us Army guys to catch up and staring at our gorgeous asses the whole time :laugh:
     

    r3126

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    i guess. although I think the number of gay marines is higher than they think. i mean how could it not be when they are the ones running behind us Army guys to catch up and staring at our gorgeous asses the whole time :laugh:

    You know? You USED TO BE well thought of (at least by me). After that remark I am searching for the NEG REP button. :D
     

    r3126

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    MARINES.jpg
     

    bulldog

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    Fellow Ingo members. Does anybody regard their blood supply?I believe your fellow soldier is your walking bloodbank. We won't allow iv drug use. Why would we allow a "lifestyle choice that increases the spread of HIV." Great survive a wound but contract HIV because we didn't want to offend anyone.
     
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