Copying an LTCH (License to carry a hangun) redux

[Scout]

No, she said that because she knows she could not prosecute it as long as you had been issued and possessed a still valid license.

IC 35-47-2-24
Indictment or information; defendant's burden to prove exemption or license; arrest, effect of production of valid license, or establishment of exemption

(b) Whenever a person who has been arrested or charged with a violation of section 1 of this chapter presents a valid license to the prosecuting attorney or establishes that he is exempt under section 2 of this chapter, any prosecution for a violation of section 1 of this chapter shall be dismissed immediately, and all records of an arrest or proceedings following arrest shall be destroyed immediately.

The only section that prescribes any possible crime is this:

IC 35-47-2-22
Use of unlawful handgun-carrying license to obtain handgun prohibited
Sec. 22. It is unlawful for any person to use, or to attempt to use, a false, counterfeit, spurious, or altered handgun-carrying license to obtain a handgun contrary to the provisions of this chapter.
and then only if used to procure a handgun to circumvent the requirements of the law.

I bet that applies to using someone else's LTCH or altering someone's LTCH to be used as your own.

AS for making a copy of your own, I don't see how they can prosecute you for it, since you are not required to carry it in the first place.

 

[Scout]

So, you make a copy and get it laminated.
Officer: "Is this your original LTCH?"
You: "Why yes it is officer"
OR?
You: "This is a copy sir, i keep the original in a safe at home"

What about
"No sir, I moved and got a new one with my current address" Now It's not your "original" LTCH...

 

[Scout]

Since IC is silent on this would it not be a perfectly legal thing to do...

The IC doesn't specify OC or CC, and yet is it a perfectly legal thing to do… (If you are licensed that is.)


What would make this whole conversation pointless (and all of it's tangents) is constitutional carry.



I copied and laminated mine when I got it back in '08 at Kinko's. The guy had no problem copying and laminating it. It was only after that I read hear about reducing it to 95% so it fits the wallet better.

 

[JTScribe]

Tried to get some copies of my wife's LTCH at Office Max in Columbus today, they refused as they said their corporate has briefed them that it's illegal. Is there a relevant portion of IC I can bring to them or should I just go elsewhere?

 

[chezuki]

Tried to get some copies of my wife's LTCH at Office Max in Columbus today, they refused as they said their corporate has briefed them that it's illegal. Is there a relevant portion of IC I can bring to them or should I just go elsewhere?

Just go elsewhere. I had no problems with the self-serve machines at Kinko's. There are also a few INGO'rs that will do it. I think USDS does it in the shop or PM Printcraft.

 

[actaeon277]

Tried to get some copies of my wife's LTCH at Office Max in Columbus today, they refused as they said their corporate has briefed them that it's illegal. Is there a relevant portion of IC I can bring to them or should I just go elsewhere?

Can't quote the IC, cause the IC only lists what is against the law. Since it is not against the law, there is nothing to show.

 

[JTScribe]

Can't quote the IC, cause the IC only lists what is against the law. Since it is not against the law, there is nothing to show.

Gotcha. They did it no fuss no muss for mine last year, but they sure did pitch a fit about doing my wife's. I even showed them the one I carry in my wallet and said, "You did this, why is it a problem now?"

I have a laser printer/scanner, I may just get some paper and copy it myself.

 

[Paul30]

Wouldn't it be easier if they just put a ccw endorsment on your drivers license similar to a motorcycle license? I agree there should be somthing better than a pice of paper. At least card stock?

No, because it is a Lifetime LTCH, even if you change state drivers licenses.

I did a high resolution scan on mine before I signed it, I can print them all day long on pink paper and add an original signature. One could even email a copy to themselves in case they were traveling and needed to print a copy if they lost their wallet while traveling.

 

[TheSpark]

Tried to get some copies of my wife's LTCH at Office Max in Columbus today, they refused as they said their corporate has briefed them that it's illegal. Is there a relevant portion of IC I can bring to them or should I just go elsewhere?

AFAIK it is not illegal. However, I understand while some places would not want to make copies for you. Copying legal documents can be a sticky area. The bigger question to me is if a copied LTCH is enough to prove our exemption from the law IF an officer knew the LTCH was a copy.

What I did was a I went to staples. They refused to copy but gave me the exact paper the ISP prints them on. They were 10cents a piece for the paper and I easily copied and printed out a few at home.

 

[chezuki]

The bigger question to me is if a copied LTCH is enough to prove our exemption from the law IF an officer knew the LTCH was a copy.

Since you aren't even required to have the physical LTCH on you anymore, I can't imagine why it would matter if the one you do carry is a copy.

 

[cce1302]

I heard they're discontinuing the lifetime CCW permit anyway, so I don't think it really matters either way.

 

[Hexlobular]

Since you aren't even required to have the physical LTCH on you anymore, I can't imagine why it would matter if the one you do carry is a copy.

When I paid, I intentionally asked the Evansville PD if it's ok to make a copy; they told me to make copies on pink paper, get them laminated, and keep the original in a safe place. That was good enough for me.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

The bigger question to me is if a copied LTCH is enough to prove our exemption from the law IF an officer knew the LTCH was a copy.

Since you aren't even required to have the physical LTCH on you anymore, I can't imagine why it would matter if the one you do carry is a copy.

The one you carry may or may not matter, but it's possible if arrested you may need an "official" one.
IC 35-47-2-24

(b) Whenever a person who has been arrested or charged with a
violation of section 1 of this chapter presents a valid license to the
prosecuting attorney or establishes that he is exempt under section 2
of this chapter, any prosecution for a violation of section 1 of this
chapter shall be dismissed immediately, and all records of an arrest
or proceedings following arrest shall be destroyed immediately.
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32.

But that begs the question of how they will be able to tell if it was the one that was issued or a copy.

 

[TheSpark]

The one you carry may or may not matter, but it's possible if arrested you may need an "official" one.
IC 35-47-2-24
But that begs the question of how they will be able to tell if it was the one that was issued or a copy.

I think the only way they could tell the one I carry is a copy is if they had someone analyze the ink or something.

chezuki: You may not be required to have it on you but like Timjoebillybob pointed out the burden of proof falls on us and we may only be exempted when we produce the license. I would encourage everyone to carry it or a good copy. If you run into an anti-carry copy on a bad day (or maybe even a good day) you could have trouble without one.

 

[Hardscrable]

Years ago when I got my lifetime permit I signed it, had it laminated, and carried it in my wallet. A couple years ago after hearing copies were " acceptable " I scanned it at home and printed several copies on white paper...now carry a copy of original signed & laminated pink LTCH with original in safe. The copy was on white paper but turned out pink and is of a copy of the signed original vs. a copy that is signed - it doesn't matter because I don't need to carry it anymore anyway and I have the original to produce from safe if need be ?????

 

[Bigtanker]

Since you aren't even required to have the physical LTCH on you anymore, I can't imagine why it would matter if the one you do carry is a copy.

Chez or anyone else have the IC for this? Need proof for someone. Thanks.

 

[ATM]

Chez or anyone else have the IC for this? Need proof for someone. Thanks.

IC 35-47-2-1 Carrying a handgun without being licensed; exceptions; person convicted of domestic battery

Sec. 1. (a) Except as provided in subsections (b) and (c) and section 2 of this chapter, a person shall not carry a handgun in any vehicle or on or about the person's body without being licensed under this chapter to carry a handgun.

<pertinent part in bold>

The old version of this code read, "...without a license issued under this chapter being in the person's possession."