Coronavirus II

[Ingomike]

With businesses being closed to save lives in Il. I wonder if Planned parenthoods are closing?

No, and as expected in blue states they are classified as "essential".

Pelosi tried to get abortion funding in the bailout bill, not sure if she did sneak some in.

Want to understand the dems love for abortion, "just follow the money". The federal government gives PLanned Parenthood $500 million a year, and PP is planning to spend $50 million electing dems. 10%, just like any organized crime syndicate...

EDIT: I am sure some may have staffing issues like any other business, so some may be closed.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Here’s a question we could kick around and it’s something I’ve been thinking about ever since these lock downs have come into vogue: When is it time to start calling for them (the lock downs) to end? We can click our tongues and roll our eyes at all of the folks that couldn’t or wouldn’t prep. But the fact of the matter is, we’re seeing the 22LR shortage (post Sandy Hook) applied and scaled up to everything from fresh meat to cat food. This is dumb. It’s self inflected. Who knows how much long term damage it’s doing to our economy. (And eventually all of our preps are going to get used up).

 

[Ingomike]

Is there a way we could all agree to only post things from confirmed sources? We have enough secret squirrel emails from a guy who knows a guy who knows someone he can’t mention. I just don’t know how we are helping ourselves or others by posting these things. I mean no disrespect to anyone in particular, but we need to do better.

I'm going contrarian here. What is going on here is life and people acting like, well, people. We are not going all FB and have "trusted sources" only, we are big boys and girls we can handle it all here. That said I am growing weary of all the posts here and other places, texts, emails, etc. that are written as femurphy77's post reads. I couldn't care less about a communication of that sort that stimulates your biases...

So let's discuss this serious issue and have some fun, life is to short to miss a single laugh or not to share camaraderie...

 

[Tryin']

Here’s a question we could kick around and it’s something I’ve been thinking about ever since these lock downs have come into vogue: When is it time to start calling for them (the lock downs) to end? We can click our tongues and roll our eyes at all of the folks that couldn’t or wouldn’t prep. But the fact of the matter is, we’re seeing the 22LR shortage (post Sandy Hook) applied and scaled up to everything from fresh meat to cat food. This is dumb. It’s self inflected. Who knows how much long term damage it’s doing to our economy. (And eventually all of our preps are going to get used up).

When Italy starts the downslope. They are the defacto metric (right or wrong) for us right now. When they get it under control, we will start seeing return-to-work stuff here in the states. Unless everything changes by then, which it seems wont to do these days.

Start watching other 1st-world info as well. If everyone closely follows the same infection rates with close to the same counter-measures, we can make some general assumptions about the trajectory.

 

[Phase2]

Interesting data from NYC, the largest group of US Wuhan coronavirus victims as of 3/19.

Age:

0-4	14 (0%)
5-17	94 (2%)
18-49	2117 (54%)
50-64	926 (23%)
65+	800 (20%)
Unknown	3

Sex:

Female	1630 (41%)
Male	2315 (59%)
Unknown	9

This is confirmed cases, not fatalities or even serious/critical cases. It confirms what has been reported before in that men are more likely to get it than women for whatever reason. It also shows that younger adults are perfectly capable of getting it, but when compared to the death statistics are far more likely to survive.

 

[chezuki]

Interesting data from NYC, the largest group of US Wuhan coronavirus victims as of 3/19.

Age:

0-4	14 (0%)
5-17	94 (2%)
18-49	2117 (54%)
50-64	926 (23%)
65+	800 (20%)
Unknown	3

Sex:

Female	1630 (41%)
Male	2315 (59%)
Unknown	9

This is confirmed cases, not fatalities or even serious/critical cases. It confirms what has been reported before in that men are more likely to get it than women for whatever reason. It also shows that younger adults are perfectly capable of getting it, but when compared to the death statistics are far more likely to survive.

Yep. Men, especially younger men, are more prone to do stupid and take risks. Avoidable injury statistics would likely look similar.

 

[Libertarian01]

HereÂ’s a question we could kick around and itÂ’s something IÂ’ve been thinking about ever since these lock downs have come into vogue: When is it time to start calling for them (the lock downs) to end? We can click our tongues and roll our eyes at all of the folks that couldnÂ’t or wouldnÂ’t prep. But the fact of the matter is, weÂ’re seeing the 22LR shortage (post Sandy Hook) applied and scaled up to everything from fresh meat to cat food. This is dumb. ItÂ’s self inflected. Who knows how much long term damage itÂ’s doing to our economy. (And eventually all of our preps are going to get used up).

This is a spot on question! We must decide that these mandatory closings will end - and that right quick!

The forced/intimidated closings are going to kill people on their own! When all of the restaurants close down we lose, directly, about 300,000 jobs! This is a basic Google search of restaurant workers in Indiana. This is a third of a million people without a paycheck right now. With the restaurants closing alone this is over 12,000 businesses not getting revenue and soon not able to pay back loans, utilities, etc. They have an average $12.8 billion in sales that is being denied sales tax to local governments.

But wait, there's more. When the restaurants close they stop ordering food, napkins, condiments, etc. This backs up to restaurant vendors that now are taking a hit. They're now sitting on tons of food that will go bad. They will also stop ordering a lot of fish, crab, lobster etc because they have nowhere to sell it. Now the crab or lobster boat captains have lost revenue streams that may cause them to fall behind on bills and lay off their workers. So the restaurants closing in Indiana will impact many coastal towns in Maine, Alaska and other strong fishing places. I pick on these foods in particular because while many people may order them in a restaurant they don't cook them in their own homes. Truck drivers who normally haul this stuff will be hauling less.

The entire supply chain for this one industry alone will cost tens of billions of dollars to the economy. Even the food industry in general will suffer because while many of us may cook similar foods at home with reduced or unstable incomes we will order less.

We are now listening ONLY to pathologists, epidemiologists, virologists, the medical profession. This is important but must be balanced with economics. Why? Because when we cause this much disruption people will die from causes other than disease. People unable to pay bills may commit suicide. People will go homeless. The deaths caused by economic collapse could possibly exceed deaths caused by Covid-19! Not in a week, not in two, but in the long run most definitely. A good leader will of course listen to the medical profession, but not to the exclusion of all other areas of expertise. There must be a balance between concern for health due to disease and concern for health due to economic stress. Economic stress causes emotional stress, which then weakens the immune system and allows us to become vulnerable to a host of other pathogens. It can create a self fulfilling prophecy.

The deaths of which I speak from economic stress will not occur in a week or even two, but how many monthes can people and businesses endure this kind of hardship? And when the businesses go under there will be no one left to employ people once the medical threat is diminished. So congratulations, we're off of lockdown, but there's no work to go back to because a percentage of businesses collapsed.

So this question is extremely important, because at some stage we must accept that the risk of contracting Covid-19 is acceptable when compared to the risk of an entire economic collapse.

Regards,

Doug

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

Aren't we overreacting to this?

I mean didn't the H1N1 kill millions of people and we didn't freak out .

What makes this time SO much more scary than the regular flu season?

 

[chezuki]

What makes this time SO much more scary than the regular flu season?

The way it’s being reported.

 

[d.kaufman]

The way it’s being reported.

Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner.

Could you imagine if the flu each year was reported like this? Every new case. Every new death. People would never leave their house

 

[Libertarian01]

Aren't we overreacting to this?

I mean didn't the H1N1 kill millions of people and we didn't freak out .

What makes this time SO much more scary than the regular flu season?

[video=youtube_share;O1sF5GXbWf4]https://youtu.be/O1sF5GXbWf4[/video]

 

[utahskies]

FYI

COVID-19 | Corona Virus: Treatment, Prognosis, Precautions

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdoN_XsHWBI


COVID-19 | Corona Virus: Epidemiology, Pathophysiology, Diagnostics

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWzbArPgo-o&feature=emb_logo

 

[MarkC]

Unfortunately, like with so many things, the truth lies somewhere closer to the middle. I do believe, based on medical reports, that this is a serious infection. I do question whether it is the apocalyptic civilization-ending superbug, as it has been portrayed.

As mentioned many times already in this thread in many ways, follow the money. Look who's self-interest is being served by whatever pronouncement is made.

The repressive Chinese regime has a strong incentive to portray themselves as a) not culpable, and b) effectively responding.

The CDC and WHO are bureaucracies who need to appear capable and effective, to preserve budgets and staffing levels, and help the current leadership stay in place.

The MSM hates Trump and the US's market and financial success, and are desperately trying to remain relevant. If it bleeds, it leads, and they are certainly willing to not let a crisis go to waste, even if they have to exaggerate or even create the crisis.

It is all a matter of self-interest. Things have gone off the rails in China and Italy. When I lived in Europe, one thing was clear: Italy's post-WW II government was absolutely no example of leadership or organization for anyone else to follow.

 

[femurphy77]

Aren't we overreacting to this?

I mean didn't the H1N1 kill millions of people and we didn't freak out .

What makes this time SO much more scary than the regular flu season?

Another generation of sheepier sheep have joined the herd? Constant "updates" that are nothing more than rumors? People believing the worst?

 

[mmpsteve]

A question about wearing masks. I was confused by some of the wording regarding masks, from one of the earlier posted articles. I understand the mask helps to not spread the virus with your cough droplets. But as a defense to breathing in the virus, I found this wording confusing. Can anyone shed light on this? Here's the wording:

"Should we be wearing masks?
The N95 mask itself is extremely wonderful. The pores in the mask are three microns wide. The virus is one micron wide. So you get people who say, well, it's not going to work. But you try having three big, huge football players who are rushing for lunch through a door at lunchtime—they're not going to get through. In the latest data I saw, the mask provided 5x protection."

.

 

[qwerty]

FYI

COVID-19 | Corona Virus: Treatment, Prognosis, Precautions

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdoN_XsHWBI


COVID-19 | Corona Virus: Epidemiology, Pathophysiology, Diagnostics

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWzbArPgo-o&feature=emb_logo

He has another one too that is really good that goes through treatment. In both, he breaks it down and uses visuals which helps. Great post.

 

[hoosierdoc]

Well #2 is gonna require a source by me because that sounds like absolute crap. I stopped reading at that.


https://www.businessinsider.com/most-us-coronavirus-deaths-ages-65-older-cdc-report-2020-3

Email in Wisconsin

This is a private email passed from one professional in Wisconsin to another. It doesn't violate copyright laws so I am going to post it in its entirety considering the severity of the virus. I have also changed names to protect the privacy of these professionals.

You all may not know it, but I am involved with a national organization called Take Heart America, and also with the Sudden Cardiac Arrest Foundation. As such, I have become involved in some of the latest research and have been able to meet and get to know some of the leading emergency and cardiac medicine doctors in the world. Tonight I was emailing with one of them, and he sent me what I can only describe as 'a real wake-up call' in response to my suggesting that we get together. I am sharing this with you and my friends and family in the hopes that it gets the unvarnished truth out about what is going on in terms of the corona virus. The email went as follows:
Mark,
As a good friend, I want to communicate the following information about COVID-19. . Please do not misinterpret my communication. I am not sending this to scare you, just to provide you with the latest, and most reliable information healthcare providers have received to prepare for this pandemic, so you and your wife can make informed decisions for yourself. The major points (as of today – this is rapidly evolving) are as follows:

1. This is serious.
2. Half of all deaths are under age 50.
3. Anecdotally, XXX has 2 patients with COVID-19 on ECMO - one previously healthy 27 year old and one previously healthy 30 year old.
4. With COVID-19 infections, there appears to be a component of direct infection of the heart, decreasing strength of the pumping action of the heart. Older people and people with cardiac and pulmonary conditions are at further, increased risk.
5. There is no known effective treatment.
6. Many patients with COVID-19 and symptoms are presenting to the emergency department only with upper respiratory complaints or a cough – no fever.
7. Following infection with COVID-19, there is an asymptomatic period of 2-9 days where people spread the disease to those they come into contact with. For every known case, there are at least 10 asymptomatic cases spreading the disease.
8. Thus, the number of asymptomatic infected people actively spreading the virus in public settings is exponentially higher right now than the number of known cases.
9. Fr******** ED had its first confirmed case Saturday. Yesterday they had 6 confirmed cases. The rate is rising exponentially.
10. The only known effective way to not get this disease is strict social isolation now (not next week!).

This disease is unprecedented in any human experience in the last 100 years (since the Spanish Flu Pandemic of 1918). Given the available information today, my personal advice is to consider COVID-19 like a possible fatal disease in your decision-making. Example: what is the benefit of going to the restaurant tonight and having a wonderful dinner with my wife versus do I want to risk possibly getting a potentially fatal disease? That is the analogy for the meaning of “strict, social isolation”. Go in your house, shut the door, and don't come out. Timing is everything. The rate of known cases will exponentially increase by the day. “Now” versus “next week” matters.

Not widely appreciated is that the expected duration of the need for this kind of strict social isolation is in the approximate range of at least 4-6 months. Wisconsin is expected to peak for known cases by mid to late May. It will also probably take just as long for it to taper off (IF social isolation compliance is effective).

Accordingly, the responsible suggested recommendations are to cancel all in-person meetings. Do everything remotely. Stay home. Wash your hands frequently (use hand sanitizer). Sanitize your computer keyboard, cell phone, and surfaces at home frequently. Don't touch your face. Order groceries by delivery, if possible. Leave home only when absolutely necessary and then follow the "at least 6 foot rule" - keep at least 6 feet between you and the other person.

You and I are at further, increased risk. In response to your request to meet in several weeks to discuss XXX, let's do it by phone or computer.

Again, I don't want to scare you. However, we all need to have the correct information (the government has done an absolutely shameful job until the past few days) and respect this pandemic, and then keep it simple, do some basic things, implement strict isolation by the definition above, keep positive, and provide leadership institutionally, locally, and at home and with your loved ones and friends.

Hunker down, and...stay healthy!

May God protect us all from this pestilence.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

just my opinion, but as to the question about how do we eventually get out of total lockdown/shelter in place, etc?

The biggest key, there are other big ones, but top on the list is the availability of widespread, quick testing... with very low criteria corresponding to the early symptoms, like mild fever. Same day results. If you have it, self quarantine.

Currently, there are people in ICU with SEVERE symptoms, waiting for test results to confirm that its corona virus. Had that person been able to be tested a week or two earlier, when they were just feeling a bit lousy with a 100 degree temp, that could have greatly reduced spread and "flattened the curve".

 

[OurDee]

11 minutes and one of the best pieces I've seen on the Spanish flu.

[video=youtube;kxxXDPhow9Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxxXDPhow9Y[/video]

 

[KittySlayer]

A question about wearing masks. I was confused by some of the wording regarding masks, from one of the earlier posted articles. I understand the mask helps to not spread the virus with your cough droplets. But as a defense to breathing in the virus, I found this wording confusing. Can anyone shed light on this? Here's the wording:

"Should we be wearing masks?
The N95 mask itself is extremely wonderful. The pores in the mask are three microns wide. The virus is one micron wide. So you get people who say, well, it's not going to work. But you try having three big, huge football players who are rushing for lunch through a door at lunchtime—they're not going to get through. In the latest data I saw, the mask provided 5x protection."

.

The N-95 mask can protect but...

...they need to to fit properly and be used properly.

My my wife was fitting these for employees for a while at the hospital. The mask come in different sizes and shapes for different faces. Don’t touch, don’t lift the edge to breath when it gets stuffy, don’t contaminate when putting on/off. A lot of her advice to me was Common Sense but we know how little Common Sense exist in our society.

Remember the higher death rate in males? Probably all those guys with Operator Beards not getting a good mask seal.