Coronovirus III

[foszoe]

Was causation proved for nursing homes or was it correlation? We both agree they should be shut down it seems.

What criteria would be acceptable for closing down nursing homes? Subways? etc. If we can't prove causation, what criteria are we to make decisions off of?

Do you have well-enough controlled areas that implement different policies, to be able to analyze the variance? That's the hard part: there are often too many variables to try to control, and even quite a bit of overlap of impact of competing policies (the "Chicago gun crimes are caused by Indiana guns" canard).

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

According to the plain reading (and a quick calculation) from the Indiana CV site, a little over 40% of the deaths occurred in long term care facilities. How many of the other 60% were residents of LTCs but died in hospitals, I wonder?

 

[nonobaddog]

Then we don't have a need for a national disease bureaucracy. Or FEMA. Or the FBI. The governors can figure it out.

You probably didn't know this but some states have different levels of pandemic than other states. Wyoming with 7 deaths is different than New York with 21,640 deaths. So, Yes, the states need to set appropriate policies at that level if not even a finer level and the governors are the ones to do that.

 

[T.Lex]

There was no/limited national guidance....and what was given was junk science and modeling. Demographics of large population centers and minorities happen to be coincident. You're telling me a republican governor could do better when the man in the White House doesn't know **** from shinola?

Well, there was national guidance, from the CDC. Trump was an inarticulate spokesman for it, but there was guidance.

In terms of actual policy and action, either party could've managed through this about the same way, IMHO. Trump became the headline himself too much, but that's pretty much his path.

And it wasn't junk science. The best science, like intel, doesn't always clear the path - it just points the direction.

 

[Alpo]

Then don't sit back and blame democrat governors for this mess.

The GOP is in charge. If they failed to provide effective leadership, that's on you.

 

[T.Lex]

Timing is everything.

 

[Alpo]

McConnell is blaming Obama.

Sheesh. Let's blame the guy who has been out of office since 2016, and not look at Mr. Schwepps.

 

[foszoe]

No one tends to be happy with the CDC, NIH, FEMA, FBI etc unless the actions they take are agreeable.

Just look at the NRA and the GOA!

McConnell is blaming Obama.

Sheesh. Let's blame the guy who has been out of office since 2016, and not look at Mr. Schwepps.

 

[BugI02]

I rarely ever quote pics, but this is important.

THE REASON WE ARE GREEN IS THE QUARANTINE.

Why would we have WANTED to be yellow or red?

And YOU should understand that.

Without the SIP order, we would've joined NY. Does anyone here actually want to be in the same boat as NY? Any boat that NY is in is a boat I don't want to be in.

There is absolutely no scientific basis to make that claim. I'm not sure about the complete list but I believe the Dakotas, Nebraska and Iowa at least had no restrictions, and they're also in the green. Jamil's heat map is unclear without more context. It seems to indicate that hotspots are more about urbanization with spots only in Boise in ID and Cheyenne in WY but Utah has roughly the same number of deaths as Idaho and 10x the number of deaths in Wyoming yet shows no hotspots. What it does show is unclear but I don't believe it supports your case, either

 

[BugI02]

I want to see the data of NY without nursing homes, which Cuomo forced to take contagious patients back into the general population. There are going to be major lawsuits over that...

On May 6 the WSJ reported that at least 4,968 confirmed and presumed deaths related to the novel coronavirus occurred at nursing homes and adult-care facilities

That's around 18.5% of all NY state deaths. I haven't seen it broken down to the NYC area but its likely to be pretty awful and I expect Cuomo and de Blasio won't be very co-operative with anyone desiring to do such a breakdown

 

[drillsgt]

I thought we hated universities because they're dens of liberalism?

Ha, well they are but it doesn't mean they won't have people that are at least as capable as those in DC.

 

[BugI02]

Again, perfect data is an illusion in this reality.

There's no denying the decisions were based on incomplete data, that's part of the problem with a novel virus: we don't know what we don't know.

At the time the decisions were made, the actual deaths appeared to be (and likely were) growing exponentially. What that meant in terms of infections is unknown and likely unknowable. But, the actual math available was compelling.

Then why leap from an admission that there is a great deal you don't know to a conclusion that the SIP orders were enormously helpful? On what basis?

 

[BugI02]

"tautological"

"postulated"

"exponential"

Many World Theory

Immunities

anti-bodies.


My o my. The level of discourse has grown since Groundhog Day.

My o my.

We can lower the bar if you're having trouble finding an entry point

 

[drillsgt]

Then we don't have a need for a national disease bureaucracy. Or FEMA. Or the FBI. The governors can figure it out.

Your statement is silly and not related to what was discussed but yes there's probably very little offered by the Fed Gov the states themselves couldn't handle if they had to.

 

[churchmouse]

OK folks this is mostly become a political discussion. Very little if any new or even pertinent info coming forth.

So I will close this and the Political thread and start another all in thread. Coming to your area in a few minutes.

 

[MCgrease08]

IBTL

 

[BugI02]

To be fair....to ask a governor to know epidemiology when so much disinformation is coming from Federal levels of expected competency....is, perhaps, a bit much.

And the "democrat" is just ****ing gratuitous.

So, what would be fair to expect of a president when so much disinformation, and information that was flat out wrong, was coming from the WHO and the CDC (and still is). When do the 'experts' get called to account for their sins (of both pride and omission)?

 

[BigRed]

I posted here.

 

[churchmouse]

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/break-room/481197-coronovirus-iv.html