Coronovirus IV

[foszoe]

Making a a point without distinction. Does the CDC data not show that 6%, just under 10K died without a comorbiditie and the other 94% did? Maybe you don't like people saying this or are afraid some may misunderstand, but that is what the data says.

The CDC actually says "for 6% of the deaths, Covid-19 was the only cause mentioned". Only 10K died from covid alone.

So what % of comorbidities pre existed contracting Covid? If its 100% you may have some leeway with your argument.

 

[Ingomike]

Remember, if we go by the official CDC guidelines for Covid deaths, george floyd was killed by covid, not police.

So you have to pick which standard you believe in.

Either george floyd was killed by police, or he was killed by covid. Less than 10k covid deaths, or 160k+ covid deaths.

The left and media couldn't even scare the sheeple with the deaths so they had to move to "cases". The thing is, for them and their scaremongering "case" counts, during a pandemic without a vaccine 60-80% must get the virus to get to herd immunity. It is a certainty "cases" will increase if they keep testing. There is nothing on the planet that can stop "case" counts from growing...

 

[IronsKeeper]

So what % of comorbidities pre existed contracting Covid? If its 100% you may have some leeway with your argument.

Far more succinctly than I could have put it.

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[Ingomike]

So what % of comorbidities pre existed contracting Covid? If its 100% you may have some leeway with your argument.

Great question.

From national institute of health.

Approximately 75 million people in the United States have two or more conditions that last a year or more and require ongoing medical attention or limit activities of daily living, or both. 2,3 Among Medicare beneficiaries 83% have at least one chronic condition. 4 The 23% who have five or more such conditions

Gives an idea how many

 

[jamil]

Making a a point without distinction. Does the CDC data not show that 6%, just under 10K died without a comorbiditie and the other 94% did? Maybe you don't like people saying this or are afraid some may misunderstand, but that is what the data says.

The CDC actually says "for 6% of the deaths, Covid-19 was the only cause mentioned". Only 10K died from covid alone.

That's not the same thing as saying only 10K died from covid, which is what you're saying. Saying it was the only cause mentioned isn't saying the other deaths weren't caused by covid. For example, as I said before, pnemonia brought on by covid is the most common.

 

[IronsKeeper]

Great question.

From national institute of health.

Approximately 75 million people in the United States have two or more conditions that last a year or more and require ongoing medical attention or limit activities of daily living, or both. 2,3 Among Medicare beneficiaries 83% have at least one chronic condition. 4 The 23% who have five or more such conditions

Gives an idea how many

Pneumonia is not something that lasts a year or more. Respiratory failure doesn't fit into that definition whatsoever.

I'd like to see last year's pneumonia death rates vice this years though. That would be telling.

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[jamil]

Right it is completely true. Look at the previous post.

Saying it isn't even half true isn't saying it's completely true. It's saying it's less than half true. It's true enough that the 10K died from covid, so I'll grant that as a true part. But those other deaths where the person would not have died but for covid, nah. Covid killed them.

 

[jamil]

Great question.

From national institute of health.

Approximately 75 million people in the United States have two or more conditions that last a year or more and require ongoing medical attention or limit activities of daily living, or both. 2,3 Among Medicare beneficiaries 83% have at least one chronic condition. 4 The 23% who have five or more such conditions

Gives an idea how many

Okay, so you have some health factors that make you not so well. Then you get covid and you die. What killed you? You aren't telling the whole truth if you don't include covid as the primary cause. It's just like old people who die from the flu.

 

[Ingomike]

So what % of comorbidities pre existed contracting Covid? If its 100% you may have some leeway with your argument.

The question was good but can you not read the plain English in the CDC screen shot?

 

[Ingomike]

Saying it isn't even half true isn't saying it's completely true. It's saying it's less than half true. It's true enough that the 10K died from only covid, so I'll grant that as a true part. But some of those other deaths where the person would not have died but for covid, nah. Covid killed them.

We can agree here with bold additions above?

 

[Ingomike]

Okay, so you have some health factors that make you not so well. Then you get covid and you die. What killed you? You aren't telling the whole truth if you don't include covid as the primary cause. It's just like old people who die from the flu.

Actually I did not realize how perverted the system was until we started all the covid crap. I since have learned the the top killer was heart related and have read that heart related paid the most when coded properly. Another follow the money moment. Now covid pays the most, coincidentally it is now the number one killer. The incentive to code for pay is just too great to trust the numbers.

Okay, so you don't have serious heart disease and you get covid and easily survive but your buddy gets it and had the serious heart disease and succumbed to the HD/covid, What was the primary cause of the buddies death? The heart disease that put him on the precipice of death with the first flu or virus that came along or covid itself?

 

[Tombs]

Actually I did not realize how perverted the system was until we started all the covid crap. I since have learned the the top killer was heart related and have read that heart related paid the most when coded properly. Another follow the money moment. Now covid pays the most, coincidentally it is now the number one killer. The incentive to code for pay is just too great to trust the numbers.

Okay, so you don't have serious heart disease and you get covid and easily survive but your buddy gets it and had the serious heart disease and succumbed to the HD/covid, What was the primary cause of the buddies death? The heart disease that put him on the precipice of death with the first flu or virus that came along or covid itself?

It's getting to the point I don't think fruitful discussion is even possible.

Covid is the basis for some getting their way politically. Any sense of reason is entirely out of the window at that point. As I said, they have to pick whether george floyd died from covid or from police, and that is the basis for picking whether we want to go with the 10k number or 160k number.
But because they usually line up on a specific side of the isle, they will never acknowledge this logical problem, and will do everything possible to avoid having to think about it or address it.

In your instance, the individual clearly died from heart disease.
If someone gets aids and then dies from a cold, we NEVER say they died from the cold. We say they died from aids.

 

[jamil]

We can agree here with bold additions above?

Yeah, we can agree on that as worded, but I doubt we'd agree on quantification.

This isn't addressed to Ingomike but any of the skeptics who, I dunno. Can't seem to explain the world with covid in it without some kind of conspiratorial reasoning.

Why? I mean. I don't agree with the mandates or shutting down all that stuff either. But I don't need to ignore a bunch of facts so that other facts can say it's all some kind of conspiracy. It can be just covid and circumstances, and human nature, and social reactions, and politics, and not need to read between lines that aren't there. That CDC document isn't all that hard to read. There's no reason anyone should conclude that that means they're saying there were only 10K deaths from covid.

I dunno. It seems mostly ideologically driven, because it's just not a logical conclusion to draw from that article. You guys seem very eager to suck in information from just anyone who says what you want to hear about it covid. I mean. Dang, some people are calling it the "plandemic" for **** sake. And then justify the conspiracy theories with circular reasoning. I'm kinda shocked the Builderbergs aren't in on it at this point. Or hell. Maybe even the trilateral commission. Are they still a thing? Or maybe I just missed those posts.

 

[jamil]

Actually I did not realize how perverted the system was until we started all the covid crap. I since have learned the the top killer was heart related and have read that heart related paid the most when coded properly. Another follow the money moment. Now covid pays the most, coincidentally it is now the number one killer. The incentive to code for pay is just too great to trust the numbers.

Okay, so you don't have serious heart disease and you get covid and easily survive but your buddy gets it and had the serious heart disease and succumbed to the HD/covid, What was the primary cause of the buddies death? The heart disease that put him on the precipice of death with the first flu or virus that came along or covid itself?

Undoubtedly some are capitalizing on this. And that just confounds the statistics. There are also reasons to attribute deaths to something else. Like NY was caught doing. The deaths were embarrassing and so they fudged the numbers the other way.

In your scenario, if he would have lived but for covid, then covid was the cause. The healthier you are, the more likely you'll survive covid. That doesn't mean that the unhealthy people who died after contracting covid didn't die from covid.

 

[Alpo]

Tan me hide when I've died Clyde.......

 

[mechmc17]

I since have learned the the top killer was heart related and have read that heart related paid the most when coded properly. Another follow the money moment. Now covid pays the most, coincidentally it is now the number one killer. The incentive to code for pay is just too great to trust the numbers.

This is the foundation of understanding. Sad but true that in a situation that can be construed as uncertain, doctors/hospitals will choose the option with the highest reimbursement. No greater truth than this when it comes to Covid.

 

[ws6guy]

We'll never know how many actually died from covid. Of the 94% that died with comorbidities how many could could've been asymptomatic or had false positive testing? How many were already on their death beds and covid was the final straw, much the same with many elderly deaths were the person just gets that last little push into death from any number of sicknesses. At least it appears that in the US and at least some other countries we are not seeing a sharp up tick of deaths this year compared to past years and hopefully it stays this way!

 

[Kdf101]

I'm not sure it is possible to get to the "real" number of covid deaths. more than 10k, but less than the stated number is my take. I still say though that, if you are healthy, you have very little to worry about. Yes it happens that some healthy people die, but it is rare. That is why the shut downs, restrictions, etc... have never made sense to me. It seems we should protect the at risk groups and let the rest of us go about our lives.

 

[jamil]

We'll never know how many actually died from covid. Of the 94% that died with comorbidities how many could could've been asymptomatic or had false positive testing? How many were already on their death beds and covid was the final straw, much the same with many elderly deaths were the person just gets that last little push into death from any number of sicknesses. At least it appears that in the US and at least some other countries we are not seeing a sharp up tick of deaths this year compared to past years and hopefully it stays this way!

I think the overall death totals are not exactly accurate, and the reality that the death toll isn't actually quite as bad as the numbers. There are inaccuracies on both sides of it. Some legit covid deaths get tallied as something else and some deaths are attributed to covid when it's something else. But I don't have a reason to believe it's off enough to get too shook up about it.

 

[HoughMade]

It's getting to the point I don't think fruitful discussion is even possible.

Covid is the basis for some getting their way politically. Any sense of reason is entirely out of the window at that point. As I said, they have to pick whether george floyd died from covid or from police, and that is the basis for picking whether we want to go with the 10k number or 160k number.
But because they usually line up on a specific side of the isle, they will never acknowledge this logical problem, and will do everything possible to avoid having to think about it or address it.

In your instance, the individual clearly died from heart disease.
If someone gets aids and then dies from a cold, we NEVER say they died from the cold. We say they died from aids.

Whether people are being counted as COVID deaths when they die with COVID rather than dying as a result of COVID is a different issue (but related) than whether the recent CDC numbers state that "only 10,000 people died from COVID."