Coyote Snares

[CampingJosh]

Shooting is knowingly killing.

If you mean to punch a guy in a bar fight, and it turns out that the guy is a police officer even though you didn't know it, you assaulted a police officer. Meaning to do the action is what counts.

Again, that sentence points "knowingly" toward the action rather than the object.

 

[ru44mag]

Too bad? Too bad that you chose to forfeit your civil rights over a cat.

You are mistaken about the law, and you are bragging in a public forum about breaking it. If you intentionally kill a domestic animal, you have committed a felony. You don't have to know in advance that it was a domestic animal for this still to be a felony.

If not plainly stupid, it's at the very least bad form to openly encourage the commission of felonies. And it's surely against INGO's terms of service.

Thank you kind sir for educating me on this subject.

 

[KJQ6945]

This is just comical!

 

[Rookie]

A few weeks ago, while coyote hunting, I almost shot a dog. I mean, safety off, past the first stage and creeping past the second stage of my trigger. At 11:00 at night, looking through a thermal scope, it looked a lot like a coyote. The only reason I didn't pull the trigger is because it was acting strange for a coyote. I turned my spot light on, and there was the neighbor's dog.

The point is, accidents can happen and that's why the code is written with the words KNOWINGLY and INTENTIONALLY killing a DOMESTIC ANIMAL. Yes, I would have intentionally shot it, but I wouldn't have knowingly shot a domestic animal.

 

[ru44mag]

This has really got me thinking. There was an old woman that lived down the road from me. She passed away several years ago. Reportedly she had over 30 cats in her house. There was a path that led from her house, down the hill and across the road into the woods I hunt. The cats used the path, and I even saw raccoons and skunks using the path. The woods should have been full of rabbits, but my neighbor that owns the woods, nor I ever saw any because those *%#$ cats would kill all of them. Now she fed all those cats, plus any others that would visit. Now does that make all those cats were domestic? And seeing as how she fed the skunks and raccoons, were they domestic too? Seriously. I just want to be fully educated so as not to commit any felony's.

 

[phylodog]

Shooting is knowingly killing.

If you mean to punch a guy in a bar fight, and it turns out that the guy is a police officer even though you didn't know it, you assaulted a police officer. Meaning to do the action is what counts.

No, you didn't. (2) The offense is committed against a public safety official while the official is engaged in the official's official duty. An off duty cop in a bar is not engaged in official duty.

Again, that sentence points "knowingly" toward the action rather than the object.

Wrong. The statute specifically exempts wild animals including cats if you'd care to read it in its entirety.

As used in this subsection, "domestic animal" means an animal that is not wild

Definition of feral

1 : of, relating to, or suggestive of a wild beast

• feral teeth

• feral instincts

2 a : not domesticated or cultivated : wild

• feral animals

b : having escaped from domestication and become wild

• feral cats

 

[Rookie]

This has really got me thinking. There was an old women that lived down the road from me. She passed away several years ago. Reportedly she had over 30 cats in her house. There was a path that led from her house, down the hill and across the road into the woods I hunt. The cats used the path, and I even saw raccoons and skunks using the path. The woods should have been full of rabbits, but my neighbor that owns the woods, nor I ever saw any because those *%#$ cats would kill all of them. Now she fed all those cats, plus any others that would visit. Now does that make all those cats domestic? And seeing as how she fed the skunks and raccoons, were they domestic too? Seriously. I just want to be fully educated so as not to commit any felony's.

You can kill them if you get her permission. Do you know a good psychic?

 

[ru44mag]

You can kill them if you get her permission. Do you know a good psychic?

I'm pretty sure most of them are in kitty heaven already. Those darn coyotes got to eat you know. Sure could not have been me. I will deny it if asked.

 

[Fargo]

Shooting is knowingly killing.

If you mean to punch a guy in a bar fight, and it turns out that the guy is a police officer even though you didn't know it, you assaulted a police officer. Meaning to do the action is what counts.

Again, that sentence points "knowingly" toward the action rather than the object.

Criminal statutes are supposed to be construed strictly against the state, true ambiguities are to be resolved in favor of the defendant.
"Knowingly" is the mens rea or "state of mind" required for the act to be criminal. The general rule of statutory construction is that the mens rea applies to all elements of an act, absent something in the statute saying otherwise.

I don't see anything in the domestic animal statute which limits the knowingly requirement like you think it does.

Plus, unlike "mistake of law"' there is a viable "mistake of fact" defense generally available in criminal proceedings.

If I get really bored, I might look through the annotated statute and see what the caselaw says but at first blush Phylo appears to be reading the statue correctly.

 

[CampingJosh]

I don't see anything in the domestic animal statute which limits the knowingly requirement like you think it does.

Phylo appears to be reading the statue correctly.

In this light, I will admit my misunderstanding and apologize to all.

 

[Fargo]

In this light, I will admit my misunderstanding and apologize to all.

I went through the annotated statute, there does not appear to be a case directly on point, but there is one that appears to apply the mens Rea under different circumstances to all element of the offense. As I read the statute and the case law, it would appear to me that a good faith belief that an animal is feral is likely both an affirmative and and non-affirmative defense under the statute.

There are special rules for how criminal statutes are to be read, largely because they are the basis under which we take away peoples liberty and property etc. While you're reading makes sense if we were reading regular English, I don't think it is correct as far as reading this statute.

 

[ru44mag]

In this light, I will admit my misunderstanding and apologize to all.

Cool!!! That means the stupid guy can go out on this beautiful day and look for feral cats and coyotes after he eats his deer chili!! I think I will take the AR this time.

 

[ru44mag]

In this light, I will admit my misunderstanding and apologize to all.

And just so you know, the neighbor girl sent me a picture of her cat a long time ago, so there would be no accident. I keep it in my phone as a reminder.

 

[bwframe]

Dog recovering from serious coyote trap injury https://www.theindychannel.com/news...og-recovering-from-serious-coyote-trap-injury

What on earth was going on with this one???

That dog must have swatted to pee on that trap.

 

[CountryBoy19]

I"In accordance with the law" means that it's still illegal to shoot the neighbor's pet even if it is on your land.

FWIW, there is protection for farmers shooting dogs that are harassing livestock, even if they are domestic dogs/pets. And the owner of the dog is liable for any livestock losses the farmer incurs.

 

[CampingJosh]

Cool!!! That means the stupid guy can go out on this beautiful day and look for feral cats and coyotes after he eats his deer chili!! I think I will take the AR this time.

Feral cats? I've never had a problem with killing those. But there was discussion above of actions that are unambiguously aimed at domestic animals. For instance:

Just because most of your neighbors are too nice to shoot them or snare them

It's only "nice" if it's a pet rather than feral.

And the guy described here:

Years ago, a hunter from the time he could walk told me ANY cat or dog he sees while in the stand gets shot.

I mentioned to him about his dogs. He said, same for them, "they are not supposed to be there."